Is RTC squirreling the tech? Mike McClaughry interview, 3/13/2000, Part 1

Transcribed by Batchild (Sue M.)

Converted to HTML by Batchild (Sue M.)

Mike McLaughry and Bob Minton outside the Sandcastle in Clearwater, FL

BOB MINTON: What brings you down to the Sandcastle on March 13, the year 2000?

MIKE McLAUGHRY: Well, I'm gonna do a birthday present for Ron, the founder of Dianetics and Scientology.


MIKE McLAUGHRY: Today is his birthday and I'm gonna come down here and apply Keeping Scientology Working on his behalf. Uh, I think there's a lot of Scientologists that are afraid to apply that policy today because they're afraid of David Miscavige, RTC and OSA. Um, well, there's a group of us left that aren't afraid of those people and, uh, we're gonna expose their squirreling of the technology and make a videotape about that. And I have nicknamed you Bob for KSW! (laughter)

Mike and Bob shake hands



BOB MINTON: All right, good luck to you.


Mike McLaughry by himself

MIKE McLAUGHRY: Hello, my name is Mike McLaughry. I'm in Clearwater, Florida today. Today is March the 13 in the year 2000, uh, 50 years after Ron Hubbard wrote his book Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health. And today is his birthday and I'm here to give Ron a birthday present. Um, basically, I'm here to apply Keeping Scientology Working. Um, this is a policy letter, probably the most important policy letter in Scientology. But inside the official church today, that policy letter is dead. Um, people who try to apply it--and I'll tell you my story--end up getting expelled. So, um, this is my birthday present for Ron. Uh, a lot of Scientologists are afraid to apply Keeping Scientology Working in Scientology today because they're afraid of David Miscavige, RTC or OSA and what will happen to them if they do. However, there are some Scientologists around, Ron. I'm sure, as you're aware, that we are not afraid of those entities and we will continue to apply Keeping Scientology Working for you, and that is our birthday present to you today. So Happy Birthday, Ron.

In the background here you'll see the Sandcastle (close-up of Sandcastle sign). That's where OT7s go, uh, people that are on, uh, Operating Thetan level 7, OT7, and that's where they go for services. And every six months they are called back from wherever they live to do a six month Sec Check. That particular Sec Check is out-tech. Uh, we tried exposing that and, uh, we--meaning my wife and I and a couple of other OT7's--we tried exposing that out-tech and, um, eventually we got kicked out of the church for doing that.

My wife is a Solo NOTs Certainty Course graduate. She was on OT7 for nine years. She's no longer on OT7 because it's being squirreled by RTC. Um, she found that there are LRH HCOBs that, um, makes those six month Sec Checks out-tech. We also found a bunch of other out-tech on OT7, um, which we'll go into a little bit later. And therefore she's not, no longer participating. Um, we had to make a decision at some point; we were threatened by RTC to either shut up about these bulletins and not tell other people on OT7 about them or, you know, the ax would fall on us. Well, we made the decision that we were going to continue to apply Keeping Scientology Working. We weren't gonna give in to their threats against us and we continued to tell other people on OT7 about the squirreling of OT7 and these HCOBs that RTC does not want OT7s to see. Therefore, at this point, we're out of the church; I mean, you know--well, I am, anyway; they expelled me eventually. But before that ever happened we decided to stop participating. My wife stopped participating in the OT7 across the street here. Um, we did that voluntarily before I was ever expelled. And, um, the reason is is that we're not gonna participate in, in squirrel tech. And in this case the squirrel tech is OT7. That's why she quit; she quit voluntarily, she's not expelled. But, um, there was no way she's gonna come down here and participate in what's going on across the street there. And we're making this video to help other OT7s see what is being done, uh, you know, in the way of, um, off-source OT7, squirreled OT7. And, uh, you know, that's what we're gonna do today.

inside office

My wife is Virginia McLaughry. She was on OT7 for nine years. She was a Solo NOTs Certainty Course graduate. Um, to give you a little background, uh, everybody on OT7 has to get a six month Sec Check every six months while they're on that level. And to make a long story short, my wife found some bulletins that proves that that is out-tech. Um, the six month Sec Check line was started in 1982, uh, when a dispatch was sent to LRH--he was still alive then--asking him about a problem with Solo NOTs auditors at the time. And he said to, uh--they were having some problems with them and he said, "Get 'em in, get 'em cleaned up, keep 'em cleaned up". And therefore the six month Check line was born based on an LRH advice. Now, let's distinguish that, that it is an advice, uh, you know, designed to handle a particular situation at that time. And an LRH advice is not senior to an LRH HCOB. Okay? Uh, now again that was done in 1982. Um, there was never an LRH HCOB that says that you do six month Sec Checks on people on OT7.

Uh, okay, so, uh, a year later, on 24 April 1983, LRH wrote another bulletin called "Confessionals in the Non-Interference Zone". And in that he basically said people who are, uh, stalled on a level, who are out-ethics, you know, having problems, that kind of a thing--uh, no case gain, nattery, otherwise exhibiting overts and withholds or out-ethics, uh, you know, you could sec-check those people. However, he has a caution section in that bulletin that says a pre-OT who is running well and making case gain should not be interrupted. Um, that is not being applied by the current management, it's not being applied by Flag and it's not being applied by RTC, that caution section. If, they don't care if you're running well and making case gain on OT7; you have to come in and get a six month Sec Check every six months regardless of you're, if you're progressing well on the level. That's a violation of this bulletin that I just quoted. Okay?

Uh, in the second of October 1983, um, Ron made another bulletin; he made a revision to CS Series 73. Uh, in this, he stated that there were different--this is a 12-page bulletin, by the way, and in it he laid out the various no-interference bands on the OT levels. Uh, section 3 was the band for NOTs, um, and he defined section 3 as "those persons completed on OT3 and/or completed on any level above OT3". Um, he made a list of things that they can be given between the OT levels. Okay? On this list is Confessionals and False Purpose Rundown, Handling of Postulates, Considerations, Attitudes, Evil Purposes or Evil Intentions, O/W's. Um, basically what that boils down to is that you need to notice there is that he says those things can be given between any of the OT levels above OT3. So if you're on OT4 or if you're on OT5 or 6 or 7, you're not supposed to be getting Confessionals, False Purpose Rundown or any of the things I just listed. Okay? You're supposed to get those things between the OT levels, not while you're on them. That was an LRH HCOB that he made in '83. I think he also revised it again in '85; it says the same thing I just said. Um, now referring back to the earlier bulletin that I just quoted, "Confessionals in the Non-Interference Zone", if the case stalled or was in some kind of ethics trouble, of course then you could, uh, do a repair, patch them up, give 'em some Sec Checks, that kind of a thing, according to that bulletin. But if he's doing well on the level, you would not sec-check him unless he was in between the OT levels. Okay? Not while he's on it.

(clears throat) Now on the second of August 1990--this is after Ron's death; Ron died in 1986--somebody rewrote, uh, CS Series 73, the one I was just quoting. Uh, CS Series 73 written by Ron before he died was a 12-page bulletin. The revised bulletin, uh, written in 1990 after Ron is dead (clears throat) called CS Series 73 RB, is a five-page bulletin. In other words, they whacked seven pages out of an LRH bulletin, CS Series 73. That's quite an alteration. (clears throat) Basically, uh, CS Series 73 RB says that, uh, people who are doing well are not to be interrupted by sec-checking or anything else. Okay? Um, I'm skipping a whole bunch of our story here because you can read about it on the same web site. Virginia has written up her story in detail in a time-track form and you can get the full details of this story and what happened by reading that, those issues. Okay? I'm just gonna try and get the highlights here to make a few points on tape.

In September of 1997 my wife had been doing OT7 for many years at that point. She started, I think, in 1990. Uh, she spent seven years--or nine years, pardon me--nine years on OT7 getting six month Sec Checks not realizing that it was out-tech. In a few cases where she got them it probably wasn't out-tech because she wasn't doing well on the level, in which case the Sec Checks were not out-tech. But then there came to be a period of time when she was doing well on the level and didn't need them and was forced to do them anyway. Okay?

Um, in September of 1997 she was at Flag for a six month Sec Check on her OT7 level, and she accidentally discovered CS Series 73 RB, um, and, like I said before, she read the line where it says people on OT7 should not receive any other auditing including Sec Checks. Right? Um, and that scared her at the time, you know; she slammed the, uh, bulletin--you know, the, um, the page shut, you know, and non-confronted what that thing said for another year, you know. Out of fear, she didn't say anything about it; she went, "Holy shit!", she couldn't believe what she read and didn't bring it up for another year.

In September of '98, which is a year later, she was back at Flag getting another six month Sec Check on her OT7 level, and she decided to bring up this issue. Um, you know, she got a session and realized that she was, uh, not--you know, failing to apply KSW, got a session, had that realization and decided that she was going to, uh, stop being, uh, you know, afraid to apply KSW. And she brought up that "CS Series 73 said that I shouldn't be getting sec-checked". Um, a whole series of events happened as a result of her making that origination. Um, you know, she was crammed and, you know, uh, various things went on between her and the C/S's and the D of Ps and things like that. She got a lot of word clearing, studied a whole bunch of other issues, none of which conflicted with CS Series 73, and the data in CS Series 73 still held true despite all these other references that she was being shown.

In October of 1998--actually it was October the 3rd--she went to a friend's of ours' house by the name of Greg and Debra Barnes. Also present was another OT7, um, by the name of Bill Rhodes. And this was just a friendly get-together of peop--you know, Scientologists, they all happened to be on OT7. The subject of, uh, CS Series 73 came up at this get-together, and it was--everyone there knew that, uh, they were not applying CS Series 73 by continuing to sec-check everybody on OT7. Um, and this was a problem to us as Scientologists and--I wasn't there, I wasn't present at this meeting--but what they decided to do about it was to apply KSW and they continued to apply KSW to the fact that this bulletin was not being applied. Um, this meeting was used later, um, to, uh, say that it was a mutiny meeting, that we decided to start a Black PR campaign and that we were against Sec Checks. All three of those things are lies. Um, Bill Rhodes was there; he wrote a Knowledge Report about it, uh, that he was at this meeting. He said that there was no decision to start a mutiny, there was no decision to start a Black PR campaign, um, that, um, favorable conv--conversation was there about the benefits of Sec Checks, you know, the gains that you get from them. Um, the only thing that was talked about and decided at this meeting was that, um, Flag was not applying CS Series 73 and what were we gonna do about it was apply KSW. Okay? However, Ethics, um, the person in particular April Buchanan, wrote a Knowledge Report about this meeting, accusing us of having a mutiny meeting, that we decided to start a Black PR campaign and that we were against Sec Checks. Um, there is no part of LRH tech that any of us are against, including Sec Check tech. We were objecting to squirrel Sec Checks in violation of LRH Bulletins. April Buchanan omits the world--the word "squirrel Sec Checks" that we are opposed to and says that we are opposed to Sec Checks; that's a lie. We are not opposed to Sec Checks.

(clears throat) Okay, um, following all that, there was a--Virginia was being handled in an effort to get her to, um, say that Sec--you know, six month Sec Checks were standard tech--like I said, she got a lot of Method Two word clearing on various issues, stuff like that, um, no M/U's on it--she was finally sent to Qual. She was checked out in Qual on all the issues that they thought, um, made six month Sec Checks okay. The bottom line was that they didn't, that they're not okay, um, and the Qual Sec--I think her name was Nancy Martin, I'm not sure about that--yes, it was Nancy Martin--realized that Virginia had a good understanding of all the issues on Sec Checking and everything else and, um, validated Virginia for her understanding of everything and couldn't find that, you know, that Virginia had any M/U's.

Um, so at that point Virginia says, "Well, this is an LRH bulletin here, CS Series 73; how come we can't apply it then?" Uh, and the answer was that, "Well, you know, it's really out of our hands. RTC licenses Flag six months at a time, and if we don't do six month Sec Checks on the OT7's they will pull our license. Okay? So Flag's hands is tied, is what that means. Even if Flag agreed with you that the six month Sec Checks were out-tech, they couldn't do anything about it because RTC was enforcing them to do them, even--you know. So at that point Virginia had to go see RTC to resolve this problem because Flag couldn't do anything about it.

(clears throat) Um, after a series of events and, uh, some months going by, Virginia met with a RTC rep, Marina Pezzotti. Uh, they had a three hour discussion--I'm not gonna go into all the details of that; you can read about that. Basically, we learned from that meeting that RTC knew about CS Series 73, disagreed with applying it, and they refused to apply it. However, in the--and the end of the conversation, uh, I think Virginia, you know, got Marina to basically see that there was no real reason, you know, covered in LRH bulletins or policy to not apply CS Series 73. At that point, uh, Marina said, "Well, I'll see if I get it applied to you. Maybe we can apply it to you and you won't have to do six month Sec Checks." But she wasn't gonna get rid of the whole line for everybody. At that point my wife said, "Thank you very much, but it doesn't just apply to me, it applies to everybody on OT7." So, uh, we came to learn a little bit later that RTC's decision on that was that, uh, they weren't gonna let Virginia not do six month Sec Checks as well, you know. Um, following that, there were steps taken towards, um, Comm Ev'ing us.

(clears throat) The Black PR campaign against us continued. Um, basically false reports that we were against Sec Checks, that we were, um, you know, had a mutiny meeting and that we had started--decided to start a Black PR campaign. That led to a Comm Ev on us a little bit later with those being the charges. None of those things are true. Um, at the point that we figured out that they were not going to apply CS Series 73, we voluntarily of our own decision decided that we did not want to participate in this any more. Uh, we wanted nothing to do--as far as we, we were concerned they were delivering a squirrel tech OT7 level, and my wife didn't want to participate in that and, um, just stopped going. You know? Just quit. "It's squirrel, I don't want to do it."

Um, various letters went back and forth between my wife Virginia and, um, RTC executives. Basically, they tried an extortion tactic, saying that "we will pull your eligibility to do the OT levels unless you agree that the six month Sec Check line is standard tech." Uh, we decided that we weren't going to give in to their extortion, that we were not going to lie, we were not going to go into treason on KSW, um, that we would continue to apply KSW to the situation. We would cop the treason condition to the squirrels, uh, if we went into agreement with that. And that was our decision, you know; we're not going to do that. You know, go ahead and pull--even if it meant that, you know, they were gonna pull our eligibility, we wouldn't be allowed to do any further OT levels, we weren't gonna go into treason on KSW. Um, so we held our ground.

And they did pull our eligibility to do the OT levels. However, in our minds, that was kind of meaningless because we don't wanna do squirrel OT levels and it's not something we wanna do anyway. So, you know, that was really no loss to us, you know. They can keep their squirrel OT levels, we don't want it anyway, so losing that meant nothing, if you follow my logic on that.

Eventually they came to Comm Ev us based on those three false charges. And the reason for the Comm Ev was that, um, we were basically told to shut up. We started telling other people on OT7 about CS Series 73 RB. We were referring other Scientologists on OT7, um, to a bulletin, an HCOB that wasn't being applied, and we were applying KSW to that bulletin. And, you know, RTC, um, and, uh, Ethics under directions of RTC was trying to prevent us from telling other people on OT7 about their nonapplication of that bulletin, CS Series 73.

Um, the Black PR campaign against us was an effort to cover up and cut our comm lines to other Scientologists in an effort to cover up that they were guilty of squirreling OT7. That was our message to other OT7's. And they saw a need to cut our comm lines as fast as they could so that we could not get that message out to other people on OT7. Um, our Comm Ev was another effort to get our comm lines cut and to shut us up and to keep us from alerting other people on OT7 about CS Series 73. RTC does not want people on OT7 reading CS Series 73 and, and having their cognition that they are squirreling this level. Okay? It's a cover up. (Clears throat)

On May the 5th, 1999, we were Comm-Ev'ed. Um, we went to the first day of our Comm Ev, it was a squirrel Comm Ev, they wouldn't give us a copy of the Bill of Particulars in violation of policy. They wouldn't, uh, show us, uh--they wouldn't give us copies of K/R's against us,um, in violation of policy. We, you know, we asked--we went in front of the Comm Ev and said, "We need to see those K/R's, we wanna--we want copies of them. We want to--there's false reports in them that we want to correct." The Comm Ev members said we have no interest in any of that, you know, we don't care about false reports, you know. Uh, at that point we realized that they had already made up their minds. This was not a fact-finding body interested in getting at the truth, also in violation of policy, um, and therefore we, we just said, "Well, this is also a squirrel Comm Ev. These people have already made up their minds" you know, they didn't care what we have to say. Um, they were just going through the necessary motions, you know, it's like it's already a done deal.

So after pleading not guilty on the first day of our Comm Ev, we went home and we wrote a CSW to IJC to cancel this off-policy Comm Ev. We said, "This is squirrel Comm-Ev, we're not gonna participate in a squirrel Comm Ev any more than we would participate in squirrel sessions. So please call a real Comm Ev that's a fact-finding body per policy, disband this one that you have going right now and, uh, you know, we're asking for an actual fair, on-policy Comm Ev. We're not going to attend this squirrel Comm Ev that's going on right now." Therefore, we never returned to the Comm Ev. They went ahead and held it anyway, uh, you know, and a week or so later it was all done, send it down to IJC, and it was still dated for several months.

(clears throat) During the course of that time, we had realized while the Comm Ev was going on that this Comm Ev was just a continuation of the Black PR campaign against us. And therefore we looked up in policy, "Well, what is it that you do about a Black PR campaign?" And we read PR Series 18 and said what you do about a Black PR campaign is that the people who were doing such a thing have crimes, you investigate their backgrounds, uh, you know, you go to their enemies, things like that. They go off and collected data on these people and, you know, we started applying PR Series 18. We started an investigation into the people responsible for the squirreling of this tech, and we started looking for their crimes and the P/L says to expose their crimes. Okay? (looks into camera and laughs) Which is actually what is going on today. We have been investigating, finding their crimes and we're exposing them. Okay? (laughs) We're still applying PR Series 18 here.

When I first started this investigation, um, my question was, well, they--they, uh, you know, they're not applying CS Series 73. Um, during the course of the investigation, uh, into other possible squirreling they had done, uh, we came across CS Series 73 RA which was written by LRH before he died and found out that it was a 12-page bulletin. Right? And CS Series 73 RB, which was written in 1990 by, uh, you know, not by LRH but by people in the church, you know, RTC had to have approved it--I believe it was probably written in the office of the Senior C/S who wrote RB. Well, they had axed seven pages out of Ron's bulletin. And so then we realized that, um, boy, we really do have our hands on some squirrels here! You know, how dare they whack seven pages out of an LRH bulletin. Cut a 12-page LRH bulletin down to a five-page squirrel bulletin that they wrote. Okay? Uh, then we realized what withhold we were missing on them and why it was that they wanted to get rid of us with Comm-Evs and that sort of a thing and stop us from talking to other people on OT7 about CS Series 73. Because they probably realized and they had this withhold that they have altered this LRH bulletin and cut seven pages out of it.

So when we found that, uh, they had done that to CS Series 73, uh, you know, things were starting to really get interesting, going, "Wow, these guys really are squirrels!". Um, then we continued to investigate along that line and I said, "Okay, if they altered and changed CS Series 73, I wonder what other issues they've altered and changed of LRH's?". Uh, in the beginning I was asking what else did they change. After the investigation we found out that they have, uh, massively altered all LRH issues, just about, you know--it's just thousands of changes have been made by these people. Uh, the LRH books, his tapes, his HCOBs and PLs on a massive scale, to such a degree that when I got done, I said--my question then became "What didn't they change?" Is there any LRH issue that they didn't alter? Okay? That's how bad it is! (laughs)

Um, at that point we really were decided on the idea that we wanted nothing further to do with, um, the top executives of, of the church, and, uh, their--you know, they really do have a major squirrel sitting at the top of command in this church to have allowed this to happen.

Um, we were in comm with, uh, Ben Shaw of OSA and Greg and Debra Barnes at one point had a meeting with Gr--Ben Shaw and another RTC executive. And, um, we were trying to get them to, to, uh, Comm-Ev the people responsible for all these alterations. We were demanding that KSW be applied. We were demanding that, uh, the persons responsible for changing all these LRH issues be Comm Ev'ed, expelled from the church, you know, like it's supposed to be done, and that all these changes, everything be put back on source. We wanted all LRH issues to be put back exactly the way LRH had said them in the beginning, um, you know. Cancel all these altered issues that they had done. So, uh, at this meeting when Deb and Greg meet with Ben Shaw and an RTC executive, uh, Greg and Deb were asked, "What was your intention in showing HCOB CS Series 73 to other OT7's?" That question has amused me to this day although it's been, you know, months and months have gone by. Uh, you know, our response was, "What was your intention in not showing it to them?" I mean, come on, it's not a crime. Since when is it a crime to refer people to an LRH HCOB? Uh, that is not a crime. Hiding it from them is a crime. Okay?

(clears throat) To make a long story short, after months of asking Ben Shaw whether they were going to Comm-Ev the squirrels and put Scientology back on source, the answer was "No". Okay? And they're not gonna do that. So at that point, you know, we decided, well, we want nothing further to do with this. We're not participating in the church any more because it's a squirrel group. We want nothing to do with it. So we continued our investigation and use, uh--you know, we continued to apply PR Series 18.

Um, at some point, I think it was January of the year 2000, they declared me; they haven't declared my wife, but they also, um, just about a month ago, uh, declared Greg and Debra. Um, you know, the lies in our findings are--I'm not gonna even go into that. You can call me in person if you wanna know about that. But, um, at that point I'm saying that we continued our applying PR Series 18 and started looking for other crimes and went on the Internet. And we--we started finding that they weren't just guilty of crimes of squirreling the tech inside the church; they were guilty of breaking society's laws. By "they", I mean OSA and RTC. Okay? We found out that, uh, OSA and RTC have a lot of, of big withholds from the other members of the church. Okay? About what they've been doing. I myself was a member of the Guardian's Office for eight years. I worked in Intelligence and I made, uh--you know, I knew about the daily crimes being committed by the Guardian's Office Intelligence Unit. Um, when they disbanded the Guardian's Office in 1981, the story that was told to the world, Scientologists and non-Scientologists alike, was that there--they had put a stop to this criminal activity that the GO was doing. I found out in our investigation that they have not put a stop to it, and the same, um, daily criminal activities of the Guardian's Office have been continued; uh, it's just being done by people with different names, you know. They changed the name to OSA instead of Guardian's Office. RTC, uh, commands OSA and directs these criminal activities. That's their involvement in it.

(clears throat) So, uh, there again, uh, you know, we also were contacted by some individuals, you know, that--letting us know that, uh, you know, the tech was available outside of the church, you know. Several people have left, including with the upper OT levels and all over the world, this tech has been made available. When we first decided to leave the church because of the squirreling, uh, we thought that, you know, we were just dead in the water as far as services went. But that turns out to not be the case, either. Okay?

(clears throat) So we refused to participate in the church for two reasons. One is that it has become a squirrel group, and until that changes we want nothing to do with it. Until the responsible people for changing LRH's tech are, uh, Comm Ev'ed and gotten out of there and the tech is put back on source exactly the way Ron wrote it, it will remain a squirrel group. And we don't participate in squirrel groups, we're not about to do that, so we're not about to go back and participate in the formal church until that change occurs.

The other reason we won't participate in the formal church is that there's another reform that needs to take place. And that is the criminal activities being perpetrated by, um, the Intelligence Unit, um, you know, which is part of OSA and is commanded by RTC. Um, until those criminal activities stop and they stop breaking society's laws, we also don't want to be part of this group because it's a criminal group. It's a squirrel group and it's a criminal group and neither one of those reasons, uh, are deserving of our support as far as we're concerned. We want nothing to do with the formal church until those things are changed. Okay? We will not support criminals and we will not support squirrels. Okay? And that's why we're doing this.

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