From stavrosp@concentric.net Sat Sep 29 18:13:32 2001


arnie lerma wrote:

> On 29 Sep 2001 09:15:46 -0700, amafluffygirl@yahoo.com (Fluffygirl)
> wrote:
>
> >I am on a business trip right now but wanted to post this because I
> >just got the news from home that John and I have been expelled.  I
> >will not be in regular email or usenet conversation mode, however, for
> >at least several days if not longer.
> >
> >The expulsion was on the grounds of leaving Scn publicly and
> >connection to SPs. I don't yet have a copy of the expell/declare.
> >
> >Really, as I know from having been expelled one other time and talking
> >to so many others, what it boils down to is that no one gets expelled
> >unless the church is angry at them. Whether the grounds for anger be
> >real or imagined, trumped up or legitimate is another issue. But
> >basically, piss them off enough, run afoul of some politicking, and an
> >expell-declare is likely.
> >
> >I have not publicly departed Scn. I have stated I was inactive with
> >CofS and that it largely had much to do with certain communications I
> >had with them. This fact.
> >
>
>  well, I have known for sometime that Scientology LIES....
>  now you do... congratulations!

Claire has known this for some time, the next step is the realization that HUBBARD
LIED.  It is at that moment she will need  the good intentions and support from the
ARSCC(wdne).

Steve



>
>
> >When I first discovered this ng I thought everyone here was stark
> >raving bonkers.  Evil. Up To No Good. In great excitement I called up
> >the Org, was connected with the DSA, Ann Ruble (nka Ann Pearce) and
> >asked her if she knew about this terrible thing I just found on the
> >internet. She told me it's poison, stay away from it, yadda yadda.
>
>  blinders must always be tied securely shut....
>
> >
> >After a couple more months of lurking (hard to tear myself away) I
> >started posting. Gingerly at first, then jumped in with both feet. I
> >was quite party line in those days because I figured that what I'd
> >always been told was true. I then saw that the ex CofS members, Free
> >Zoners, and the more sane critics (and even some of the not so sane
> >ones!) was true, that they weren't lying. As I mentioned before, I
> >then decided that these were anomalies. After a time, I found that
> >these occurrences/abuses, etc, were not anomalies and weren't rare.
> >But I still hung in there, hoping for reform, hoping to work within
> >the system.
>
>   smile
>
> >
> >My first disappearance from the group was due to a somewhat friendly
> >meeting with the DSA, Ann, and another executive of the Org who was a
> >very close family friend.  Ann said OSA wanted to know whose side I
> >was on, even though I'd been posting all pro- CofS stuff. And she said
> >she wanted me to do what was true for me. She was really nice until
> >she called me "disingenuous" which is something people on ars like to
> >say sometimes, too. I started wondering if it was the new word for the
> >week! Anyway, I agreed to stop posting for my own good and Ann said if
> >I ever wanted to know the REAL DEAL, the TRUTH, I could ask her and
> >she'd be happy to tell me. Even then, I thought to myself "I doubt
> >this!".
>
>  good for you..
>
> >
> >It didn't feel right to be stifled like that, so after a year or so I
> >started to post again. This time, after just a few weeks, OSA
> >contacted the Org again. My friend was contacted. We had a shouting
> >match in my living room with my friend saying "JUST STAY AWAY FROM
> >THEM!" and leaving.
>
>   this is a very insightful description of the various types of
> 'handlings' attempted by Scn.  I really appreciate your posting of
> these details... you will be webbed on the
> http://www.lermanet.com/exit/ pages
>
> >
> >I started up again after a couple weeks, and was called by my friend.
> >I did some fast talking and got him off my case. Told him I'd deal
> >with OSA directly, which I did. I got an email address for someone
> >there who's on this particular situation, and sent some emails
> >announcing my intent to post again. I got no reply and then indicated
> >by another email that I'd take this silence as assent.
> >
> >Then I got called in to the Org for a briefing. The DSA had my friend
> >give me all these references to read about anti social personalities
> >and so forth. Most of you will know or know of the ones. I then handed
> >my friend a stack of LRH references about free communication, etc.
> >
> >Then I heard nothing for a couple months.
> >
> >August 20, 2001, I was told to come in and have a nice meeting of the
> >minds. It was not nice. And there was no meeting of the minds. My
> >friend and another man, Justin Smith from HCO were there. Justin did
> >most of the talking and had apparently been briefed as to what to say.
> >He brought up my civil rights and how the Org would not want to see
> >them infringed and this was irrelevant. Religions have nothing to do
> >with rights granted or withheld by the government of the land in which
> >one lives unless one lives in a theocracy. This was just PR and
> >something he'd been briefed to say, I believe. He started to get
> >sarcastic and rude. I passed out my LRH quotes again and they fell to
> >the floor. So I started reading them aloud. They said "This is the
> >reference we are going by" - indicating the reference on adherence to
> >suppressive groups.
> >
> >So it ground on a bit. (or should that be "grinded"? Probably not.) No
> >one getting anywhere. My friend was yelling,sort of like my husband
> >when he thinks I've done something spectacularly weird. THAT kind of
> >yelling.  Justin Smith continued to be rude and snide.
>
>   Yeah, they are good at rude and snide.....
>
> >
> >They then gave me an ultimatum to decide, leave ars or get expelled. I
> >said I'd need several days. Justin said that proved I was in "doubt"
> >and gave me one day. Then we talked some more, and then he said,
> >"Well, you know, you have to call by 6:30 tonight (it was about 2 pm
> >already). " and I said "what about the one day?" He indicated that he
> >just now changed it. Because he could, I suppose.
> >
> >It was then that I realized there was no hope. They'd continue to ask
> >for/demand my money and time all the while treating me with contempt.
> >Strictness is one thing, contempt's another. I decided to walk away.
>
>  make my day....
>
> >
> >I was contacted by my friend asked to come in and get a meter check. I
> >was not nice about it. I refused.
> >
> >I waited to post for a bit, only doing some askme.com stuff as
> >Voltaire's Child.  Then I jumped back in, billing myself as inactive.
> >I decided that if the church views me as an ex member, that they would
> >have to officially make that determination, that I wasn't going to
> >just hand it to them.  I then decided to stop self censoring (I'd been
> >doing so less and less, before that, decrying the culling of pc
> >folders, etc, but I'd still done so, a bit.) altogether.
> >
> >I then started writing exactly what I thought, and knew, sometimes
> >taking CofS sanctioned (I assume they are, anyway.) contributors to
> >task on things.
>
>  Theres nothing quite as exhilarating than for a person to begin
> really saying just what it is they feel and think...
>
> >
> >A number of critics still saw me as a member of the group, calling it
> >"my cult" and so on. This made no sense, but then again, this black
> >and white thinking is just as prevalent in CofS, if not more so, as it
> >EVER was here.
>
>  yea well, I havent read any of your posts for a very long time...
>  I could see the program at work in your early posts...  I dont like
>  chatting with programs... especially ron's, but i do like people who
> have  the guts to be themeselves.
>
> >
> >Then in late April, the church sent DSA Gwen Barnard from Portland to
> >see me. I refused to see her without an appointment. So she had to
> >make 2 300 mile round trips. We talked for a long time, she was very
> >sweet. But I wasn't buying it. She offered me a job writing puff
> >pieces on social issues for her. I nicely declined. The idea was to
> >distract me from ARS. I told her the church should honor its creed.
>
>  they are sickly sweet ... and will say anything to get their stats
> up.
>
> >
> >We talked probably for 2 or 3 hours.
> >
> >Anyway, we ended off and I heard nothing more except that I was on a
> >list of people not to call for events, which was on HCO color flash
> >paper (goldenrod) which is what Jana (ladayla) was referring to a
> >couple weeks or so ago.
> >
> >At that time, J &I weren't expelled, but we are now.
>
>  Take BOW!
>
>  Arnie Lerma
>
> >
> >More later.
>
> I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
> The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
> The internet is the liberty tree of the new millenium
> http://www.lermanet.com/grifters.htm - mentioned 4 January 2000 in
> The Washington Post's - 'Reliable Source' column re "Scientologist with no HEAD"
> You want Bigots? http://members.home.net/bwarr1/Movie2.html