Title: Open Letter to Mike Rinder from Robert Vaughn Young
writer@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young)
Date: 23 Feb 2000 00:30:12 GMT

An Open Letter to Mike Rinder
Sunday, February 20, 2000

Dear Mike: 

It's a very early Sunday morning in Cincinnati. I finished three posts
yesterday that I will put onto ARS and this will wrap it up for me. 

I'm making this an "open letter" not for the benefit of people on ARS.
Except for Stacy and Jesse, they haven't got a clue as to who you are and
what really goes on. No, I'm doing this "open" so it can be found more
easily by your staff, especially those who know me and the topics I'll
mention. Otherwise, it would just be excerpted, sent to DM and that would
be the end of that. 

You and I go back a long way, Mike. And until a moment in Tampa during my
testimony, I always considered us to be basically friends. You don't
understand my side, but I understand yours because I've been there. That's
why I know that while I might have you asked how things or the family
were, you had to "keep your hat on." 

In that regard, I've never held the harassment against you personally.
Besides, I figured that there is some of it you actually don't know about
because you never ordered it and the PIs don't report it to you. Besides,
it's your job. You're supposed to make life miserable for us
"suppressives," right? So to the degree that I've been there, I never held
it personally against you.

But there was a moment in my testimony when it changed. It was the closing
hour of the last day. Weinberg was doing is "re-cross" and I was sick and
in pain and having trouble following the questions and asked for a break.
Weinberg pushed it saying he had only a little bit more and I said I
really have to break and you shook your head (one of those
I-can-t-believe-it-shakes) and laughed and I called you on it. It should
be on the record. And then we finally took the break. That was when it
changed, when you decided to mock my condition. That's when I realized
that you really are gone. 

Then afterwards, we passed each other in that drug store downstairs. I
would have normally said hello but not this time, so we just passed each
other. As we did, I was tempted to turn around and tell you privately what
I've said here, that you had crossed a line and I'm sorry for you, but I
decided no, it's no use and he'd probably just file a declaration that I
had made threatening remarks and go to the judge for a hearing. At the
very least, you'd make a report and I wanted it to just be between us, but
that was impossible. But I was left with wanting to tell you and so I was
left with having to write this letter.

Don't get me wrong. It wasn't that what you said made me feel worse about
my condition. It merely made me feel worse about yours. I've come to grips
with my situation. You have yet to realize yours. 

It's one thing when a couple of professionals go at it. They understand
the turf. It's not personal. That's why I've understood your side of it.
But it is another when you cross the professional line.

I may have made a lot of comments about your professional conduct, but
I've never slighted you personally. I guess I always wanted to pretend
that it was possible that we could sit down some time over coffee and
chat, if nothing else about how kids grow up and life moves on. I knew you
couldn't and wouldn't. It all has to be reported and you can't afford to
relax around some "SP," can you? But that was okay with me. I wanted you
to know that it was possible, that even though you couldn't be that way, I

Well, I was wrong. You really were one of those people who high-fived when
you heard about the cancer and you really are glad that I'm dying. I'm
sorry about that, Mike. I'm sorry that I was really wrong about you, that
I thought that underneath it all, we were really friends.

It also teaches me that none of this will get through to you. It might
some day, but not now. 

It reminds me of a woman I was speaking to on the phone a few years ago. I
don't recall who she was or how she found me but she called me to talk to
me about her daughter (I think it was) who was in Scientology and she (the
mother) was concerned. Well, I answered her questions as well as I could
(always tempered with the caution that I have another plant being run in
on me) until there was one question she asked. No one had ever asked me
this one and it really rocked me back on my heels. 

"When you were in there," she said, "was there anything anyone could have
said to you that would have changed your mind?" 

The question really rocked me. I went silent and thought about it for a
few seconds and then the answer hit me even more. 

"No," I answered. "I'm sorry to say this but there is nothing anyone could
have told me or said to me that would have changed my mind. There might be
something that someone can say to your daughter, but for me then, no." 

That was a stunning realization. I wasn't able to explain to her why. I
just left it there. 

It was true. After all, being in Dept 20 PR and having to deal with all
the criticism, I had read everything starting with the Australian inquiry
back in the 60s which was probably the first real serious "organized"
assault. I read the books by Paulette Cooper and the rest. Like you, I
read every newspaper article and the accounts of defectors. Even after the
FBI raid of 1977, I managed to read the seized Intell files. Those were
the worst. What I read there made me sick. I had no idea how far over the
edge B1 had gone. Attacking the "enemy" was one thing but what they were
doing was another. It was like being a soldier in a war and finding that
some of your fellows have taken to killing women and children. Even in
war, it crosses the line. That's how I felt when I read those files
finally one day. We (collectively) had really crossed the line. Yet even
then, I didn't change my mind. I haven't thought about it that much, as to
why I didn't. Maybe I thought they didn't represent us. Maybe I explained
it away as being overly zealous. After all, I believed in what I was
doing. These guys just went over the edge and now we were all paying the
price so let's get thing back on the rails and get on with it. 

So I did. I parked it and got on with it and continued for another 11 or
so years and in the process, I continued to look the other way. That's how
one moves up the ranks, isn't it? It's not how well you apply policy, but
how well you can look the other way. 

I don't know, Mike. Maybe I would have gotten to the point that I would
have laughed at some "SP's" cancer. It turns my stomach to think I would
have, but maybe I might have. I really don't know. I just know I never did
get to that point when I really made it personal, when I really took on a
former "friend" and really tried to degrade that "friend" personally. The
closest I came was Gerry Armstrong, when I was called to testify against
him. They really wanted me to come after him but I wouldn't. I tried to
couch my testimony as they wanted it, that Gerry hadn't done certain
research, but I wasn't able to use the language that they wanted because,
as little as I knew him, I liked him and it didn't matter what he was
doing or saying, that didn't change my personal feelings about him. 

But it did for you and I have to call you on it, even though I know it
won't reach you. 

And something that just occurred today, Sunday. The girl that Dept 20 sent
in on Stacy at the car wash. One of her lines was how Stacy was killing
me, a clear reference to the cancer and a clear attempt to hit some button
on her. You really have no scruples at all, do you Mike. I'm sure you gave
DM a woodie on that one but all you prove is how low into the slime you
really can go.

Little things like that show it is worse in there now than it ever was
under Mary Sue, when it comes to the equivalent of wartime atrocities. B1
went over the edge because of the pressure and there has been more
pressure these past years than there ever was back then. You've got DM
breathing down your neck, not to mention Marty. He's a hatchet man from
way back but he broke once and he might break again. In fact, I think
there is a better chance of Marty coming to his senses and taking off than

There's another thing that's different now. You've got the threat of the
Internet, and I don't mean ARS. (By the way, I have to compliment you
professionally on how you guys finally figured out what to do about ARS
with people like Enzo and various goons and shills and double agents. Not
bad at all. The problem is that ARS is still there and still works. You've
reduced its effectiveness but you haven't stopped it.) 

What I mean by a threat is that any staff member or even a public can go
onto the Net and get things that you can't control. Back in the "old days"
we could control what the members and staff knew. When there was an
entheta article in Philadelphia or East Grinstead, it could be contained.
Now the damned things get thrown on the Net, not to mention court rulings
and videos! It used to be that Dept. 20 was the only ones who knew about
the entheta stories or adverse court rulings. Now they are right there for
anyone to find, thanks to the Net. And nearly every public library has a
connection to the World Wide Web so one of your staff or a public can walk
in and log on and do a search and bingo, there it is. (And for the record,
a good record of ARS is kept at <http://www.deja.com>, just to make your
work even more enjoyable. - smile) 

So you've got a chronic worry. It won't go away. Even this message and all
of mine are preserved and my middle name is unique enough to allow an easy
search. So you can't control any more what your staff and public comes to
know. You can put secret little programs into their computers, but even
that takes a chance. Some may not like being told what they can't read. 

I have told Jesse time and again - and this last trip I said it several
times - I am SOOOO glad that I am not a PR in there now. Lawdy, what a
headache! And to have DM screaming the way he can scream. I can only
imagine what he is like now that he has been named as a defendant in the
McPherson case. We know that your ass is on the line and what your orders
are. That's what it was like when LRH was being named and why B1 went over
the edge and why you and your "B1" have done the same. 

So the only question remaining is, who will be your Michael Meisner? 

Who will finally say, I've had enough of this shit, and talk to the
authorities? Hey, it might not even be in the US! You're already in deep
kaw-kaw in Belgium and France, not to mention Germany. And from what I
hear, you ain't exactly winning friends in Russia. Oh, and don't forget
Greece and Spain. 

And meanwhile, what's DM's #1 priority? Why, DM, of course! If he is
served, all hell will break loose. 

And THAT is why I don't envy you at all! I know what working with him is
like. If anyone brings you to your senses, it will be David Miscavige. 

Frankly, I don't think I'll be alive when that happens. I'd like to be.
I'd like to see it happen. I just know that there is nothing I can say to
you that will reach you. The only one who can change your mind is you and
the only one who can prompt that is DM. He is personally responsible for
more top staff leaving than anyone or anything else. Make a list in your
head some time. You'll even know of some that none of us know about. It's
just a matter of time before it is you. I hope it is sooner, rather than

In the meantime, I really am closing this out. I know you won't believe me
and there is no reason for you to believe me, given the world of suspicion
that you have to live in. But I'm retiring, as I said in the "hello &
goodbye" post. And I really am looking forward to my new effort. I know
what it is that I'm going to do. I just declined to spell it out in the
post because I need to work out some details and they might change. No, it
doesn't mean it is some "secret" (laugh) although you'll think that and be
working diligently to find out. That's fine. Work away. What you might
find out now is what you'll hear about later, hopefully, if I do this
right. It's all in the direction of cancer education and has nothing to do
with you guys. If you want to spend more IAS money there, go for it. And
yeah, there are various ways that you can work to drag me back in, if you
want to. But you're going to be chasing another dead end. (No pun
intended. - laugh) I have better things to do now, things that I find more
inspiring than playing stink finger with RTC. And as I said, you'll see or
hear about my efforts in my new enterprise, or at least I hope so. There's
a lot to be done in the field of educating men about prostate cancer and I
just happen to have the skills, the initiative and the qualifications for
what I want to do. (No, I haven't written any "scholarly" articles or have
any degrees nor have I had a "peer review. - ROFL) You see, the only
credential one needs to have to speak about living with cancer is cancer.
It helps to have some writing skills and PR skills to know what to do with
the experience and I have a little there. (smile) That's why my new
enterprise excites me so much. I merely decided to use what I have -
including the cancer - to make a contribution that I can be proud of. 

So if you ever change your mind and want someone to talk to, you can call
me. You'll know where I am. Just check the last surveillance report.
(laugh) My only function will be to lend a sympathetic ear. But you'll
have to apologize to me for the personal shit. That's for your benefit,
Mike, not mine. Otherwise, I'm out of the loop now. I'm off to fight a
cancer for which there is no known cure. 

I do hope that when you hear about what I'm doing that you think it is
valuable. It will mean that you have some shred of true decency,
compassion and humanity left in you. 

Take care,
Robert Vaughn Young

Title: Open Letter #2 to Mike Rinder re Cancer from Robert Vaughn Young
writer@eskimo.com (Robert Vaughn Young)
Date: 23 Feb 2000 00:38:06 GMT

Monday, February 21, 2000


Since remarking in that other open letter to you about the behavior of
your volunteer in throwing those remarks at Stacy that she is killing me
(an obvious reference to my cancer and blaming her), I decided that you
need to be told something else. 

If I ever hear of that being done again, if I ever learn that your drones
have thrown that into her face (or mine), I will use every resource I can
muster to tell the world how you (collectively Scientology and L. Ron
Hubbard) feel about and treat cancer patients and those close to them. 

I will ensure that every cancer support group - from newsgroups to mailing
lists to web sites - which I can find, gets that message with the details
of what occurred. Time, place, form and event along with this last
incidence and the other times - such as your behavior in Tampa. I will
make sure that it is in the subject line, key words and written in a way
so that if a person reads only the opening paragraph (let alone the
subject line) they will get the truth of how you people feel about cancer
patients and those who support them. 

Now let me tell you why I am doing this. I know your first reaction will
be that it bothers me or her and I'm taking this personally. No, Rinder.
It doesn't and you can quote me on that. I said I am moving off into a new
enterprise to help people with cancer (specifically prostate cancer that
kills 40-50K men a year) and I am not going to stand by while someone
treats people with the disease with the disdain you are ordering to be
done. (If that volunteer had know what her insult meant, would she have
said it?) To insult Stacy or me on the subject is to insult every person
with the disease. Coming from anyone else, I could say it was done in jest
(bad taste), momentary anger or ignorance and would remark more politely
on it. Coming from your people, it is none of these. It is a deliberate
attack of the condition and it shows exactly what the organization and
Hubbard teaches and I will tell everyone who is fighting cancer exactly
that. Then if you want to follow with your despicable "dead agent" tactics
to those same groups and sites and lists, go for it and be sure to include
this message. If you don't, I will. 

I don't want you to think that just because I am "retiring" from speaking
out about abuses of your organization to devote myself to cancer education
that I am going to ignore you if you decide to intrude into that subject.
If you do, I will speak out but it will be from a different perspective. I
will be speaking as a cancer patient, not as a former Scientology staff
member. And believe me, bubba, in the world of cancer, we have a whole
different criterion as to who is an "expert" about cancer. And think twice
before you conjure up someone who "is suffering from cancer" to come after
me. You'll be stepping into a territory so foreign that it will look more
ridiculous than Kobrin's attempt to close ARS by telling ISPs to "rm" the
group, having no idea what "rm" even means or does. 

It is my intention to step away from this particular battle, but if you
want to follow me by dragging in my condition as an attack on Stacy or me,
I will be more than happy to respond. 

Secondly - yeah, there's more - if your drones continue to throw our
marriage (meaning Stacy and me) into our faces in righteous indignation as
you have done in the past, I will treat it in the same way and choose my
method of response. It is quite clear exactly what it is that you are
doing. You can issue every denial or Weinberg can challenge it with "what
evidence do you have" but you known damned well that I know exactly what
you are doing. I was trained in the same tech so nothing more need be

I could care less about the rest of your rantings and posturings. You've
taken every shot you can in the last 6-7 years or however long this has
been going on, from picketing our home to anonymous leaflets to direct
threats but you never had the good sense to recognize that nothing worked.
So I don't expect you to stop. (Dept 20/RTC is in desperate need of Grades
0-IV.) But you've got a chance on these topics. I'm being a lot more
magnanimous than you. I'm giving you a warning because I want the world to
know that I did. I want the world to know that despite your lack of
compassion and direct attack on me and my friends about my condition, I
gave you a chance to change. 

Another group that has gone through this is people with AIDS or are HIV
positive. They underwent that sort of assault. (And we know how Hubbard
feels about homosexuality.) It wasn't until those afflicted decided to
stand up in defense not of themselves but of the condition that the bigots
began to back off. It hasn't stopped, but progress has been made. 

The fact that you would now open a similar assault on cancer patients and
their supporters puts you and your organization into the same category and
I will be more than delighted to tell the world in every way that I can.
And there is a MUCH bigger world out there interested in cancer than
Scientology or even cults. It is huge. And I will use them all to bring
support to any cancer patient or their supporters who face the kind of
disgusting behavior you have decided to launch on Stacy and me. 

So get that message, Rinder. Attack a cancer patient for having cancer or
their supporters for supporting them or blame anyone for that condition
and you will hear from me on behalf of a very large and growing
population. As to me and Scientology, have a ball. I could care less. That
is no longer my arena or domain of interest. I have another struggle that
requires my time. But you'll hear from me if you reach across into that
domain in any way. 

That is a promise. 

Over to you.

Robert Vaughn Young

pointer to a digusting reply from a scientologist operative 
that illustrates how depraved this criminal brainwashing syndicate is
it is included here as supplimentary evidence of what a mind is
capable of on $cientology.