Robert Minton

Title: Minton's Remarks to Cult Information Service Conference 4/19/98
Author: (Robert S. Minton)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:16:51 GMT

Battling Scientology's attack on free speech

Remarks by Bob Minton on Sunday April 19, 1998

Thank you Paul (Grosswald) a great honor to have been invited to speak
at this annual conference of the Cult Information Service.

I won't be able to keep my secrets from you much longer, but I am
neither a public speaker nor do I possess any formal training on the
subject of cults. However, over the last three years, and particularly
in the last 9 months, I have received a rather fiery baptism on cults
and free speech from an organization that Cynthia Kisser said "is
quite likely the most ruthless, the most classically terroristic, the
most litigious and the most lucrative cult the country has ever seen.
No cult extracts more money from its members".

Yes, I am involved in a controversy with the Church of Scientology
over the most fundamental right in a democracy--the freedom to speak.
Scientology hypocritically cries that theirs is a persecuted religion
attacked by bigoted and intolerant critics. Further, Scientology's
mantra, repeated ad-nauseum throughout their paranoid and delusional
history, continues to be that those individuals and governments who
dare criticize their anti-social goals, tactics and civil rights
abuses of their own members are engaged in some grand conspiracy to
destroy Scientology. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am just one of many persons working actively through the internet,
the Cult Information Service, FACTNet, the American Family Foundation
and in our own individual ways to force much needed reform on
Scientology. These reforms must acknowledge that all of us,
Scientologists especially, have an inalienable right to criticize,
oppose or scrutinize practices and tactics used by their organization
which we view as contrary to the respect and dignity required towards
our fellow man. Without these most basic rights, there certainly
cannot be religious freedom, or in fact any freedom, in our democracy.

Scientology's own creed, which uses the phrase "inalienable rights"
seven times, states in part:

"That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely,
to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write
upon the opinions of others"

These are very noble words but this is truly an organization whose
so-called leaders have no shame. When will their hypocrisy ever end?

In the United States, many of us take our inalienable rights for
granted, because by definition they cannot be taken away. But ask
your own sons and daughters who have experienced Scientology's orgy of
thought reform or Paulette Cooper from New York, Larry Wollersheim
from Colorado, Stacy Young from Washington, Arnie Lerma from Virginia
or Frank Oliver in Florida if their inalienable rights were in any way
protected while in Scientology, or if scientology has shown any
respect whatsoever for any of their rights since they departed.

Ask Lisa McPherson and Noah Lottick if their rights to life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness were sacred to Scientology.

A little known fact in our society is that we have no rights under our
constitution unless we are willing to stand up and affirmatively
assert them. This is a price that all cults and litigious entities
like Scientology force us to pay in our society because they are so
willing to strip their members and critics alike of as many of our
rights as we will cede them.

Let me tell you a little about personal boundaries and how an
organization like Scientology tries to prey on and destroy the
personal boundaries of family members, friends, associates, and yes,
even children to stop the truth from being told.

Before detailing scientology's campaign of harassment and intimidation
against me, I want to share some thoughts with you that I had in
August 1997 when I actually began to doubt some of the critics'
stories I had heard about the incredible harassment people had
suffered at the hands of scientology.

By this time I had given financial help to a lot of critics, and some
of that help was public knowledge, yet I hadn't been subjected to any
kind of harassment, no threatening phone calls, nothing. And I began
to wonder if these people were really as bad as everyone said they
were. I honestly thought that the critics must be exaggerating. But
that was only the calm before the storm, and now the veracity of
critics' stories rings true for me.

There is a scientology directive called "Critics of Scientology,"
written by Hubbard in 1967, which has taken on particular meaning for
me over the past few months. This is, in part, what it says:


We are slowly and carefully teaching the unholy a lesson. It is as
follows: We are not a law enforcement agency. BUT we will become
interested in the crimes of people who seek to stop us. If you oppose
scientology we promptly look up - and find and expose - your crimes.
If you leave us alone we will leave you alone.

"It's very simple. Even a fool can grasp that.

"And don't underrate our ability to carry it out.


I can tell you from firsthand experience that you should not underrate
the amount of money scientology is willing to spend on private
investigators to try to dig up - or make up - some sort of criminal
past on someone they are trying to stop, as they are trying to stop

The intimidation began in September 1997, when I was contacted by
Elliott Abelson, a former Mafia attorney who now works for
scientology. Abelson said he was aware that I was funding Larry
Wollersheim and Ken Dandar, the attorney for the Lisa McPherson
estate. It was not the case with Ken Dandar, but now I thank Mr.
Abelson for giving me that idea, as I have since indeed assisted Lisa
McPherson's estate.

During the course of our conversation he warned that my family
stability and financial stability were at risk because I was attacking
scientology. I suppose I must have made it clear to him that I would
not capitulate. Within two weeks I heard from some very distant
relatives in Tennessee that scientologists were there doing a
background check on me.

In November I got a call from a woman at the scientology org in
Boston. In a subtle but firm way she said that if I did not stop
giving financial support to critics of scientology they would attack
me on five fronts, and she listed them for me:

Former business partners
Federal and state tax status

The morning after that phone call was the first time my children were
followed. That was not the only time.

Later this woman signed a declaration, witnessed by a colleague,
swearing she never said any of these things, but when you hear what I
have to say, you will know that they have done just what she promised.

Soon after that call I received the following letter from Elliott

November 18th, 1997

Dear Mr. Minton:

You appear to have undertaken the financial maintenance of
a significant number of litigants adverse to Scientology Churches in
the United States. You have even become the patron of "dog and pony
show" witnesses without legal claims, like the Youngs, who
instigate disputes and sell their testimony to the litigants you
underwrite. You're now even financing the travel of hate-filled
individuals, some of whom have already been prohibited by courts
from committing further acts of violence against members of the
Churches of Scientology, from across the United States to the
Church of Scientology's premises in Clearwater, Florida. You are,
in this manner, a responsible party in fostering a climate of
hatred in Clearwater, which endangers our staff and parishioners
who work and live there.

The distraction to Church ministers and parishioners
engaged in religious services by the potential hate crimes
committed by the individuals you are financing, would not be
occurring were it not for you going out of your way to foment their
irrational hatred. If you have not realized it before, then
recognize now that this creates a serious potential liability for
you. A number of those with whom you have associated yourself
through your patronage, such as Dennis Erlich and Keith Henson,
have engaged in threats and acts of violence, attempts at
intimidation and scandal-mongering.

Association with lawbreakers such as these,
combined with the monetary demands that inevitably
accompany their involvement in litigation or similar fertile areas
for attempts of extortion, make your actions of interest to the
prosecutors to whom such conduct has been referred.

My client holds you, your associates and backers,
financial or otherwise, personally responsible for any and all
damages it has suffered or will continue to suffer as a result of
your tortious, officious intermeddling in Church litigation. The
Church will not tolerate such conduct. I demand that you
immediately withdraw all financial support for such matters and am
warning you that you and those you're financing have crossed the
threshold of legality.

I advise you to inform me forthwith what you have done to
cease fomenting and financing unlawful attacks against my client.

Elliot J. Abelson

As I have done at every step of the way, I detailed this harassing
action by posting this letter to the internet, to keep everyone
abreast of what was being done. It was also at about this time that I
decided it would be prudent to retain competent legal counsel, which I

In late November scientology subpoenaed me to be deposed in the Lisa
McPherson case in Clearwater. They told the judge I was an agent of
the German government funneling money into the U.S to destroy
scientology. They also told the judge I was trying to substitute my
agenda, which they perceived as putting the entire church on trial, in
the McPherson case, when in fact scientology was trying to divert
attention from the real issue-the tragic death of Lisa McPherson. The
judge eventually allowed them to depose me in January to discover my

Scientology flew three high-priced attorneys from Florida to Boston,
one paralegal from the Office of Special Affairs, and Earl Cooley as
their local counsel. Cooley, as many of you know, is now the chairman
of the board of trustees of Boston University, a long-time
scientologist, and a fierce defender of scientology's rights to abuse,
harass and intimidate critics. In addition to a number of questions
relevant to the funding of the Lisa McPherson litigation, they also
tried to use the opportunity, as they always do when they depose
someone, for intelligence gathering, but I simply refused to answer
such questions.

In December I went down to Clearwater to picket in front of the Ft.
Harrison hotel, now the spiritual headquarters of scientology, with 30
other internet activists on the second anniversary of Lisa McPherson's
death. While we picketed in Clearwater, scientology did their first
picket of my house in Boston. The picketing of my house continued for
the next two months, and about every two or three days there would be
either a picket or hateful fliers handed out throughout Beacon Hill.

The picket in Clearwater was very significant because scientology
closed the Ft Harrison during the two days of the picket. Members of
the paramilitary wing of scientology, the Sea Organization, weren't
allowed to wear their Sea Org uniforms in Clearwater, apparently
because the scientology leadership was afraid these violent picketers
(that I had supposedly flown in from all over the country) might
attack them.

Instead of confronting the picketers, 4,000 Sea Org members picketed
the Clearwater police and St. Petersburg Times and damaged
scientology's own standing in the community even further.

The December 1997 picket in Clearwater was an incredible moral victory
for many ex-scientologists -- a turning point in the battle with this
organization. Scientology was so afraid of exposing its members to
anyone questioning its tactics and policies that they seemingly have
since felt compelled to hide when anyone shows up for a picket,
whether it's one person or fifty.

While I was in Clearwater in February to film an interview with a
German TV station, I met with Gabe Cazares, former mayor of Clearwater
who was harassed relentlessly by scientology because of his criticism
of them. He told me that before the picket in December he was all but
ready to give up on ever having an opportunity to control
scientology's influence in Clearwater. But scientology's reaction to
our picket, which was not to confront us but instead to lash out at
the community, created such animosity among the citizenry that it set
back scientology's public relations in Clearwater by 20 years.

In March, I flew to LA for a picket for L. Ron Hubbard's birthday,
which is always a big event for scientology. In all, 50 picketers flew
in from all over the world to defy this organization which is so
consumed with its own self importance and so intent upon silencing its

Obviously scientology is not able to confront a handful of peaceful
picketers protesting an organization that has so devastated many
people's lives. They chose instead to put tarps up in front of one of
their buildings to keep the picketers away from the staff, and they
actually canceled a birthday party that had been planned on L. Ron
Hubbard Way and kept everyone off the street as long as the picketers
were there.

A much smaller group of picketers went to Hemet, the home of
scientology's fearless leader, David Miscavige. We saw nothing but
security guards at the gate, security cameras everywhere, and people
hiding behind closed curtains peaking out at us. Not one person ever
came out to confront us. Hemet looked like the Ft. Harrison did in
December - completely deserted.

This is an organization that literally cowers at the truth.
Scientology claims to be able to create supernatural powers and enable
people to confront any situation except one --- the truth about their
organization. Perhaps Jesus has an explanation for this anomaly that
can be found in (John 3:20-21) when he warned:

"For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the
light, lest his deeds should be reproved [exposed and rebuked]. But he
that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made
manifest, that they are wrought in God."

Proving that I was not afraid to shed light on the story I wanted to
tell, December started with articles in the St. Petersburg Times, the
Boston Globe, The Chicago Tribune, and the New York Times. As these
articles came out, I think I became far more threatening to
scientology because mainstream media were looking more closely at an
organization that wants no scrutiny. This seemed to heighten
scientology's disdain for me and only intensified the picketing and

In the week prior to the McPherson deposition, scientology hired
private detectives to visit my family members, my son, my mother, my
brothers, father, stepmother, aunts, uncles, and untold others.

In December, I was also on a WGBH show, Greater Boston with Emily
Rooney, and when scientology went to see my family they took a copy of
the videotape of that show with them as a ploy for entering into a
dialogue with my family members.

I was angry about the visits to my family - it was extraordinarily
hurtful, the fact that in such a short period of time some of my own
flesh and blood could so question my dedication to them as a family.

It was like having been violated by these people when they went into
the homes and businesses of my family members simply to antagonize me,
to gather intelligence for their investigation, and to further
illustrate their willingness to harass and intimidate someone who was
prepared to help people stand up against them.

This is where I first felt, what I can only describe, as a cold steel
ball of fear in my gut.

Scientology even authorized someone to pass out scurrilous leaflets
about me in St. Bart's in the French West Indies while I was
vacationing there with my wife and daughters.

(Read Flier)

In January I was served with two more subpoenas for depositions in
other cases, one a bankruptcy case in California where I'd given
financial support to Grady Ward, an internet critic who was under
totally unjustified attack by scientology; and the other, involving a
temporary restraining order against another internet critic, Keith
Hensen who had been roughed-up by a scientology detective, which they
tried to get against him in Clearwater to prohibit him from picketing.

More national media began broadcasting or filming in January. NBC's
Dateline, CBS's Public Eye, ABC's Turning Point, and a major German
television station all have or plan to air major exposes about
scientology. In fact, the German show is airing tonight in Germany,
and an article based on that show was published yesterday in a German
newspaper and beamed all over the world via the internet last night.

When these media talk to scientology spokespeople about me, they
pretend that I am nothing to them, that I'm not important and try to
get the media to lose interest in me. Yet in Clearwater, when
scientology public relations man Brian Anderson saw a German TV crew
filming me in front of the Ft. Harrison, he canceled all interviews
that had been set up with that German crew because the scientology
leadership was offended that scientology had not been told by the
German crew that they would be interviewing me for this documentary.

Following the article in the New York Times in December, I was
contacted by the United Nation's special envoy who is responsible for
preparing the UN's reports on Human Rights and religious intolerance.
I met with him at his request and presented the other side of the
scientology picture.

I believe my meeting with Professor Abdulfattah Amor was useful and I
was very pleased to see that his April report to the UN on religious
intolerance and discrimination denounced several of scientology's
rants. Specifically, he denounced scientology's claim that Germany's
treatment of scientology could be equated with Jews in Nazi Germany as
so ridiculous as to be purile. Further,his report counters criticisms
made by scientology, and by the US State department in its annual
human rights report.

In the meantime, the private investigators have tracked down more of
my business associates all over the world -- in Turkey, in England, in
Brazil and other countries. They have dug up business associates of my
wife's family, and the families of my former business associates.
People who have refused to meet with them were themselves subjected to

Then their friends were visited and contacted by these private
investigators in an attempt to get them to comply with their desires
to talk with them. The really unnerving thing about it is that in
almost every case it has worked. These people have ended up talking to
these private investigators. These are the boundaries scientology
loves to violate.

I want to tell you some of the things they have said to my former
business associates:

First, scientology's private investigators show them a detailed
psychological evaluation of me, and say they are convinced that I'm so
unstable they're afraid I'll go into an org and shoot 25 to 30
scientologists at any given moment. And it goes downhill from there.
Every detail of my life, everything negative, everything they can
distort or paint in a bad light -- this is what they tell my friends
and associates, so these people will feel uncomfortable with me, and
then I will in turn feel that discomfort and eventually, scientology
hopes, I won't want to put everyone in my life through this and will
back off.

But every time they go after one of my friends or associates, it
increases my resolve. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull.
The tactics they use against me and others who criticize them are
wrong. I'm just one in a long line of people they've been doing this
to since they have existed. Hubbard even did this to his wife and
children. These tactics and policies are wrong and must be changed.

My experience, coupled with my friends' reactions, has made it more
understandable how what happened in Nazi Germany could have occurred.
People laughed at the nazis at first, then they were scared and
intimidated into total, utter silence. And then there was nobody left
to fight them and they took over.

People don't want to get their families involved in the type of battle
that I'm involved in. But it's a threat to all families, not just
mine. There is no better audience to understand this than you people
sitting here today, who have seen the results of many destructive
cults violating your own families.

Sometimes I question why I'm doing this and whether I should continue,
knowing that there is no way that I personally am going to force
scientology to reform. But I keep doing it because I want other

[ FINI ]


Tuesday, December 9, 1997
Crime HiTech Copyright 1997 By the Associated Press

by Leslie Miller
Associated Press Writer

BOSTON (AP) - A millionaire claims the Church of Scientology intimidates
its detractors and prescribed medical techniques that he says killed one
member. Church members say the millionaire is using "KKK-style" tactics to
discredit the church.

Robert Minton has put $1.25 million into helping those fighting the church.
He calls it an exercise of his First Amendment rights.

Members of the Church of Scientology have paid for a private investigator
to dig into Minton's private life and threatened to sue him in six states.
They call it chasing a rat out of his hole. A lawyer who has been involved
in such attacks - both against and on behalf of religions - said such
disputes can go on for years and become very emotional. "Sometimes reason
seems to evaporate," said Lee Boothby, a Washington, DC -based church-state
lawyer. "All of the very new and small religious groups that feel
threatened tend to become very aggressive. The problem of it is, where
will it end. I don't know if I see the light at the end of the tunnel."

Scientology, a religion founded on the writings of L. Ron Hubbard, has 700
centers in 65 countries. In 1991, Time Magazine estimate its membership at
50,000 members. Scientologists have long complained the German government
discriminates against them. They compare their treatment to Nazi
harassment of Jews in the 1930s. Boothby doesn't disagree with the
analogy. "When you get to Eastern and Central Europe, where they're
passing restrictive legislation, the ones who suffer are not just new
religions. Presbyterians in the Soviet Union have been evicted by property
owned by government. Baptists have been prevented from holding public
meetings. There, Baptists, Presbyterians and Lutherans are cults."

Minton's clash with the Scientologists began a few years ago when he was
web surfing at his home in the historic Beacon Hill section of Boston.
While observing the new group, Minton took notice of the case of Dennis
Erlich, a former Scientologist who had put copyrighted Scientology material
on the Internet. "They obtained an ex parte writ and invaded his home,"
said Minton. "The cops and their lawyers carted away all this man's
computer equipment." Minton said he was appalled by the tactics used by
Scientologists to violate their own members' civil rights. He contributed
$5,000 to Erlich's defense fund.

Earlier this year, he contributed $100,000 to plaintiffs in a wrongful
death suit in Clearwater, Florida alleging the church caused the death of
36-year-old Lisa McPherson by holding her against her will and denying her
care. Minton said he donated the funds to McPherson's estate because
Scientologists had a formidable defense team; he has also pledged another
$250,000 to help finance the suit. Minton said he'd let the Clearwater
police decide if the Scientologists killed McPherson. "Certainly L. Ron
Hubbard's medical techniques, which he prescribed Scientologists to follow,
killed Lisa McPherson,," he said.

Two months ago, Minton bought a $260,000 house near Seattle for two former
Scientologists who have testified against the church. The couple claim
their landlord evicted them after Scientology officials pressured him to do
so. "Who's behind this guy?" said Kendrick Moxon, an attorney for the
Church of Scientology. "The man is going to be sued because he has
committed torts all over the country and I want to know why is he trying to
destroy religion and create chaos."

Kurt Weiland, a Los Angeles-based spokesman for the Scientologists, accused
Minton of "covertly funding, and in this way, manipulating litigation."
Members of the Boston-area branch of the church passed out flyers on Beacon
Hill last Friday, denouncing Minton. "This week he is leading a KKK-style
rally against peaceful members of a religion," read the flyer. The flyer
referred to Minton's attendance at a rally outside a courthouse in
Clearwater, Fla., marking the two-year anniversary of McPherson's death.
Weiland admitted the group's lawyers had hired at least one private
investigator to look into Minton's private life. "If it takes five to get
to the bottom of it to find out what are the hidden motives of this man, I
will gladly endorse our lawyers to hire five." Boothby views all that
litigation with dismay. "There's more heat than light," he said. "It
tends to generate more heat on both sides than is useful."

------------------------------------- End of this article-------------------------------------

While I was in Clearwater picketing Scientology, I too had posters distributed in
my quiet cul-de-sac in North Arlington Virgina... I also was picketed by 1/2 dozen
deluded adherents. be sure to see the pictures of the demo in question
on this website. Arnie Lerma Ex-Scientologist Raided & sued in August 1995....


Robert Minton on WGBH Boston

This is the first half of the WGBH show about Scientology.
It has the conversation between the host and Robert Minton.
The second half will follow sometime next week. It will take
a lot longer, as there were many instances of 2 or more
people talking at once.

Any mistakes in this transcript are my fault, and I welcome
other people who taped the show to send corrections to me.


I'm Emily Rooney. Tonight on Greater Boston - A Boston man is putting
his own money up against the Church of Scientology, fighting what he
says are abuses by the church. Plus dramatic footage of a church raid
in california.

Good evening. Ever since the Church of Scientology first appeared in
the 1950s, it's been fodder for controversy. Its founder, L. Ron
Hubbard believed his religion would eventually be embraced by the
world. And that was his goal. The Church says it now has about 8
million members worldwide, but that figure is in dispute. Celebrity
Scientologists like John Travolta, Tom Cruise, Kirsty Alley, and Lisa
Marie Presley have lent credibility to the Church. But it's in and
out of the news all over the world. Now the church is in the news
once again as an investigation into the death of a young Florida woman
raises questions about the Church's role.

And here in Boston, a retired investemnt banker is lending financial
support to church critics.

"Picture of Bob Minton"
Retired Beacon Hill investment banker Robert Minton says Scientology
abuses some of its members and uses strong arm tactics to ward off its

"Picture of Dec 1 NY Times story"
Minton first took on the church several years ago after the church
took legal action against several people who were posting internal
church documents on the internet

"Cut to video of Erlich raid"
One of the people Minton aided financially was this man - Dennis
Erlich of Glendale CA. Erlich had been posting Scientology documents
on the Internet when the church sucessfully challenged his first
amendment rights, claiming the documents were copyrighted. Here's a
little of what happened when the Church came to Erlich's house a few
years ago.

"S" Just take a look.
"D" What is this? No, no, wait a sec. What is he doing, exactly?
He's taking pictures of things unrelated to this. I want that
film. He has no right to invade my privacy.
"S" The police should be here in about 2 minutes, and we'll all
discuss it, ok?
"D" You know no limits, do you?

"Cut to video of Clearwater protest"
Minton has also contributed about $100,000 to a legal battle against
the church on behalf of the estate of Lisa McPherson, a 36 year old
Scientologist who died 2 years ago under suspicious circumstances.
Minton was at church headquarters in Clearwater FL for this protest on
McPherson's behalf a few weeks ago.

McPherson had been a church devotee for years, but according to her
family was thinking of leaving the church when she got involved in a
minor car accident. EMTs examined her at the scene and said she was
fine, but McPherson inexplicably stripped naked and started walking
down the street. When she was taken in for psychological evaluation,
a practice against church beliefs, church elders had her released from
the hospital. 17 days later McPherson was dead. County medical
examiner said she suffered severe dehydration.

"Cut to studio"
Joining me now is Robert Minton. How did you first get involved with

Robert Minton
Retired Investment Banker"
Well, the first thing that happened that drew my attention, just being
an internet junkie, sort of, was when the Church of Scientology tried
to illegally cancel the newsgroup, called alt.religion.scientology,
which was set up to discuss all aspects of the Church of Scientology.
It became a haven for critics of the church and...

Was that something on the internet?

Yes. A newsgroup on the internet. And it became a haven for critics
to discuss the church. And information, the free flow of information,
particularly, about the Church of Scientology, has been one thing
that they have tried for many years to supress. And they issued an
illegal remove group message through an internet server to try to
cancel the news group. And this became, purely from a free speech
standpoint, a battle cry for a lot of people on the internet. "What's
going on here? Why are these people doing this?"

Which is quite different, though from what Dennis Erlich was doing.
He was, actually, from what I understand, putting out top secret,you
know, pirvate materials that belong to the church out on the
internet. That wasn't part of your...?

No. This was December of 94. Erlich, this raid on his home occured
in February of 95. And it was after the raid on Erlich's home that
people began to even get more interested in what this Church of
Scientology was doing, and how they could basically subvert the
copyright law to allow them to go into peoples homes and literally go
through every nook and cranny in their house, and walk away with in
their own posession with all the computer materials, scanners,
printers, floppy disks, hard disks...

Well they've been legally successful through the years. They've
basically won the battle with the IRS as well.

That's right. Well, they have a team of extremely well paid lawyers
who decided that copyright law could be used in a way that would be
mainly an intelligence gathering process for them. Once you had
everything that Dennis Erlich, who is a major critic of theiers, and
subsequently Bob Penny in CO, and Arnie Lerma in VA, and Lawrence
Wollersheim in CO also, these were people who were very very high on
their list of enemies. And all of their computer equipment gave them
access to all of their communications with their friends, to other
potential critics of the church. Intelligence gathering.

I should say, they're going to be here in a few minutes to join us.
They don't want to be right on the set with you, but the church will
be joining us. Are you personally financially wealthy? How can you
pour this kind of kind of money into this? And why this cause as
opposed to something else?

Well, that's a good question. And yes, I have in my banking career
accumulated enough money so at, basically at 46 years old I could
devote a lot more time to my family and other interests that I had.
The more I found out about the Church of Scientology, and particularly
the first thing that I heard about Dennis Erlich, that was of concern
to me, was this concept of forced isolation.

I should say, Dennis Erlich was a member of the church for 68-92 I


He came out in 92

Right. And he was a very high ranking member. He was their chirf
cramming officer at their FL Clearwater landbase. And he was
essentially, as he describes his job, he was there to make sure that
the brainwashing techniques used by the Church of Scientology on their
members were indeed working. A quality control officer in that

Well, Dennis reiterated about the fact that he had been locked up in
the basement of this Ft Harrison hotel.

Yeah, I'm going to use another clip of that later. He tells that

Yes, and the same thing, of course, in Lisa McPherson's case, occurred
much later. And I personally have been locked up against my will...

For what reason?

Well, I grew up in a, this is a long story. but I'll make it real
quick. I grew up in a very bad family situation, my father was pretty
abusive to my mother. And she just for her own protection, just left.
And left the kids with my father. And very soon after that we got into
a scuffle. I'm taken off to the police station in the middle of the
night, in the finest southern tradition of Faulkner and Tennessee
William. I end being taken on a ride...

To jail.

No, ...


... on a ride to a mental institution. In a padded cell, for the
first night anyway. And so some of the things that happened to Lisa
McPherson, the bruises particularly, on her hands and arms, are
really relevant to me.

Now, there's a technique that they call Introspection Rundown, which
is, I guess, a sort of clearing of the demons. They don't believe, as
I understand it, I'm certainly not an expert on Scientology,
traditional psychothotherapy. So they put a person through another set
of circumstances that will bring them out of it. She clearly was
exhibiting some signs, I guess, of mental distress is the best way I
can put it, correct?

Absolutely. I mean, she was in deep trouble at many points during
that 17 days that she was..

No, I'm saying before, even.

Oh, yes. Before, yes. There were signs that she was having some mental

And so she goes into this hospital that night, they come and get her
out, 17 days later she's...

Hospital would be the wrong word

The first night..

the hotel

the first night was the hospital? the police took her to the hospital?

She visited a hospital. She didn't stay. She was immediately, seven
scientologists arrived at the time she arrived at the hospital. They
precluded her from having any sort of psychiatric examination, because
of their disbelief in psychiatry. She had a brief physical exam,
which indicated she was in good physical shape.

Now, there's been some kind of a ruling on that today. That the
County Sherriff's office, I guess, has said there are going to be
charges filed in the case. But against whom we don't know.

Well, there have been the recommendation by the state and local
police, the Clearwater and the state police in FL, is that criminal
charges should be brought against as yet unspecified persons. That
part is under seal. It seems to be that this has been leaked out ahead
of time to put some pressure on the local prosecutor who, by some
accounts, is a little bit weak-kneed in terms of taking on ...

A lot of people are.

litigating with Scientology.

And just quickly, before we move on to the next segment. Do you feel
as though you've been harassed or bothered by them for some of the
outspoken criticism you've done?

Yes, absolutely. I mean, they've followed my 10 and 12 year old
daughters down West Cedar Street, 75 feet. Not a particularly
intimidating act, in itself, but it's all part of a process of trying
to intimidate their critics. And it certainly was intimidating to
their mother, to me, and obviously the more concern you create within
a family, the less likely there is to be continued involvement in that
activity that's causing the problem.

You also told me a story about the NY Times was going to do a followup
to the Globe piece, and that they were going to take an ad out
discrediting the reporter who was doing the story.

Yes, I mean, Douglas Frantz, who wrote the piece on the IRS, the
shadowy story about the Chuch of Scientology's tax exempt status back
in March, the Lisa McPherson piece a week ago on the front page of the
paper, and this piece about me, they have decided that the only way to
deal with the NY Times is to attack the messenger. Which is ...

The reporter.

traditional. The reporter is the messenger, yes. And...

Okay. Well, we're going to speak with a reporter and a couple other
people in a couple minutes. So Robert Minton, thank you very much for
being with us. As I said, when we come back, representatives from the
Church join us, as well as Steve Hassan, author of "Combatting Cult
Mindcontrol" and investagative reporter Russ Baker.

End of transcript - as provided by Jeff Spencer

Thank you Jeff for transcribing this segment

Title: Moxon on my case
Author: (Robert S. Minton)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:20:22 GMT

Moxon is trying to link me with a lawyer named Stokes. Does anyone know who this
could be? Moxon knows perfectly well that what I am doing is protected free
speech. Just like telling Moxon to *----* off is protected free speech.

Rinder claims I wanted to make demands of the Church before his Friday 12/5
press conference. As Messrs. Touretsky and Ward are aware, I said I have
reforms in mind-not demands.

Miscavige is interested to know what those reforms are! I stated that CoS must
stop violating its members civil and human rights as well as the civil and human
rights of its' critics. Period. Full Stop. Do you need a law degree to
understand that?

Who is telling me this information besides the criminal ex-Scientologist I was
with in Clearwater. I said current, former and dead Scientologists not to
mention anyone who has criticized the "leaders/lawyers" of Scientology.

He accused me of making "horrible, scurrilous statements" that the church had
followed my children. I indeed reaffirmed that scumbags from Scientology did
just that.

Lots of other harassing accusations re money and profit motives with Dandar,
McPherson family, Dennis, Carla Oakley, Keith, Germany et al. This new age ufo
religion still cannot see any possibility that people will no longer tolerate
their abusive behavior to their fellow man.

I told him he knew who my lawyers were and to make any further threats in that
direction. Hang-up.

Bob Minton

Title: Survived Deposition Yesterday-Cult has tail between legs.
Author: (Robert S. Minton)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:39:42 GMT

But there is a confidentiality agreement and depo sealed.

The cult is truly pitiful and Miscavige is out soon. Is it Rinder
who stages the coup? Or will it be someone who has guts?

New "Freedom" glossy entitled "Freedom of Speech At Risk In Cyberspace"
passed out on Beacon Hill tonight. It's another in the fine line of
Freedom Magazine's Special Issues.

Bob Minton

Author: Arnie Lerma
Date: 23 Mar 1998 09:47:56 -0800

A flyer handed out in St Bart's French West Indies [ TODAY ]
to harass Mr Minton

Mr Minton vacations in luxury while charging his
mother who lives on social security interest on a loan when he has
millions of dollars at his disposal

Mr Minton exploited the people of third world countries,
manipulating thier debt to make millions for himself
and the rulers in power

Mr Minton refuses to help his own son with a loan to
purchase a house but forked over 1.5 million to
fund the members of a known hate groupd in a campaign to
create intolerance and hatred.

Mr Minton acts like a bully to anyone he can manipulate with his money,
his second wife left him rather than put up with his brutal beatings.

Mr Minton buys people with his money and is financially supporting a ring
which includes wife beaters, child molesters and a pornography editor.

[ picture of Minton talking to Rev. Dennis Erlich at Celebrity center picket in
LA ]

caption Mr Minton associating with an accused child molester

end of flyer

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