of money.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Yes, sir.
But who actually did the regging and what did they do?
MR. KELLEY: They what they would do is they
would -- say, you were on the eastern United States tour, they'd have an advance man --.say, your next stop was Boston. The advance man would go to Boston, book the hall, you know
MR. SHOEMAKER: This is for information
MR. KELLEY: Right.
He'd make a reservation for a place to hold the event, you know, it's for thousands of people. He would get a place in the local org. for the registrars to work, a phone, and the local org. would provide assistance.
MR. SHOEMAKER: So, regging relates to the registrar?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Which is the person that takes in money
MR. KELLEY: Takes in money.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- and does the recruiting for
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- the courses?
MR. KELLEY: Well, right. There's a difference between recruiting and regging.
Recruiting, normally, is for getting staff members.
MR. KELLEY: Regging, normally, means getting money.
There were recruiting tours out, too.
MR. SHOEMAKER: But the regging is related to the public people
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- that is, the people who come in and pay for the courses?
.MR. KELLEY: Right.
The registrars would go out. They would be on the phones, you know, they'd have contacts they'd have people call. They'd get people to the event.
The day of the event, someone from Flag would fly out. Usually, it was a Class 12 auditor, someone that usually, a technical person. And they would give a briefing on what Ron is doing now and news at Flag, technical breakthroughs, and that sort of thing.' It's all done very exciting, a real big show.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Please excuse me, but we're not all
knowledgeable with the words.
A Class 12 auditor
MR. SHOEMAKER: .-- is that somebody
MR. KELLEY: That's the highest stage you can get.
MR. SHOEMAKER: That's the highest level you can get?
MR. KELLEY: The only place -- a regular organization is a Class 4 organization, and you can only train up to Class 4 auditors. And there's, I think, three organizations where they are Class 9 organizations. And Flag is a Class 12 organization. They're the only place that has a Class 12 auditor.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And that relates directly to the level of training
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- that a person MR. KELLEY,: That's a highly, highly trained -
MR. LeCHER: In Clearwater?
MR. KELLEY: That's done here, right. The only place you can do it is here.
Anyway, they send one of these people out - someone of that nature - and they would do the speaking. They would do the actual speaking at the event, you know, do
their little show.
MR. SHOEMAKER: What would
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- what kinds of things would they talk about?
MR. KELLEY: -- maybe they'd have a slide presentation, possibly. They used to have one of the Flag Land Base. They'd use really professional photos of, you know, Priscilla Presley by the pool or, you know, things like that. They made it real enticing, you know.
And they would talk about what Ron was doing now. "He's researching this or he's doing that," you know. And then, they'd talk about the new technical break throughs: whatever was news and was the
MR. SHOEMAKER: What kinds of claims would be made?
MR. KELLEY: Usually, they made it sound like Ron was actually doing something.,
MR. SHOEMAKER: But the results that people would
MR. KELLEY: People would get enthused. They'd stomp and cheer and applaud and -- people would get real enthused. Then, they'd say, "See the registrar about going to Flag." And there'd be these people sitting there with
the invoice machine and a calculator.
MR. SHOEMAKER: During this process, did types of --were-they promising things to people in terms of --
regarding physical or mental corrections or saving of the world or what?
MR. KELLEY: Not so much that at a regular -- at a regular event. Those were done more at recruiting events when they try to get staff members. They'd talk about helping planet Earth.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Were they -- they would talk about helping the planet and so-forth?
MR. SHOEMAKER: What type of image were they placing forward regarding Mr. Hubbard?
MR. KELLEY: Oh, like he was the greatest thing since -- that he was just flawless. And that's a -every time we'd have a staff meeting here at Flag, at the. end of it, we'd applaud Ron. You'd always stand up and give Ron a standing ovation because he's done this great thing for you.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Did you ever see or meet Mr. Hubbard at
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- all?
MR. KELLEY: That's one of the things that disgusted me. "If he's so great, why can't he come by and" -- you know. We made 2.3 million dollars one week,. "Why doesn't he show up and say, 'Hello, I you know, Congratulations.'"
MR. SHOEMAKER: After going through the this
public presentation and so forth - the people that were interested in the course - what happened. next to them?
MR. KELLEY: They were -- if they were interested and they had cash on hand or a checkbook, they would write a check for a service.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And where did that check go?
MR. KELLEY: It went from there to -- like, if it was in Boston, it would go to the Eastern United States Liaison Office, then, it would dome here.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Then, it would come to Clearwater?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
Then, it would come across my desk.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And you had said before that, I believe, there were three of these types of tours that were done
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- around the world?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And that came directly back to Clearwater?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
Did -- no. The.Europe one, the money doesn't go directly back, and I don't know where that money goes. No one -that's a highly kept secret.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Oh, i~ is?
MR. KELLEY: That's highly kept.
MR. SHOEMAKER: But yet, you did indicate there were a lot of Europeans that carne to
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Clearwater?
MR. KELLEY: All we get is a little piece of typed paper. They're called "Central Files information Slips," and it's a little strip of paper that tells what the payment was, what it was for, and the person's address. It says everything on it the invoice does, but the money didn't come here. And no one knows where -- there's -that's very -- a highly kept secret, highly kept secret where that person is. I don't know where that is.
MR. SHOEMAKER: During your process -- well, first of all, can you describe to us what a Suppressive Person is?
MR. KELLEY: Anyone that has -- wants to harm
Scientology, has harmed Scientology. Anyone who testifies is about as suppressive as you can get.
MR. SHOEMAKER: So, you yourself would be
MR. KELLEY: Oh, big letters.
MR. SHOEMAKER: You're a Suppressive Person?
MR. KELLEY: Big time.
MR.. SHOEMAKER: And that is why, because you talked about
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- Scientology?
MR. KELLEY: Because I've said something against it. Well, part -- first, that I blew; I left the organization uninvited
in, you know, 1980. So, there's already a piece of paper that says I'm declared a Suppressive Person and I'm not to
be spoken to. The regular Scientologist can't talk to a Suppressive Person.
MR. SHOEMAKER: They cannot?
MR. KELLEY: Cannot.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And you have referred, also, I think, to bad information, bad news, that you don't talk about it?
MR. KELLEY: Right. They call it en theta.
MR. SHOEMAKER: En theta?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
They use symbols -- you just don't talk about bad news, things bad that happen.
For example, when that lady Scientologist committed suicide, you didn't talk about that stuff. That was -that was just -- it wasn't positive; it didn't have a purpose.
MR. SHOEMAKER: So, that would be included in any types of news stories or any type -
MR. KELLEY: Oh, right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: ---of events outside that were -
MR. KELLEY: Certainly.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- you wouldn't talk about, as well as personal things?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
You didn't talk about your Mom dying or you didn't talk about the Clearwater Sun, for example. I keep -I don't mean to keep picking on the Clearwater Sun.
MR. SHOEMAKER: No. I'm sure they're enjoying it.
For instance, the RPF, you wouldn't talk about if somebody, a friend of yours
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- was in it?
MR. KELLEY: Oh, no.
You wouldn't -
MR.SHOEMAKER: No one would know why they were in it?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
I was never in the RPF, also. I narrowly avoided it.
MR. KELLEY: One thing you never do in Scientology is you don't joke around, you don't make jokes about Scientology. So, obviously, I didn't stand a chance. You didn't -- there was a very technical -- there's a very technical bulletin on it. it's called "Jokers and Degraders," and it makes reference in there that if you do make jokes, you're probably a Suppressive Person.
You didn't -- they -- a sense of humor about themselves, they-didn't have.
MR. SHOEMAKER: How about how frequently were you-audited during this process?
MR. KELLEY: That's a good question. I probably received six or seven hundred hours.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Six or seven hundred hours?
MR. KELLEY: I've got nine folders.
3-36 1
MR. SHOEMAKER: You have nine folders?
MR. SHOEMAKER: In three years?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Could you compare it to, say, weekly, how frequently you went through with an auditing session?
MR. KELLEY: It's hard to say because for several months you wouldn't get -- you, wouldn't receive any auditing;
then, you received a whole bunch in a matter of weeks.
MR. KELLEY: Usually, just the luck of the draw. Staff members didn't have a real high priority on being audited.
Obviously, the first job here in Clearwater is to deliver to the public, paying customers, and then, to us the working class. And the higher up in the organization you are, the more likely you were to get auditing.
MR. KELLEY: This is the reward basis.
MR. SHOEMAKER: So, the auditing was a reward -
MR. KELLEY: Oh, sure. Right.
You're -- when you're on staff, you get you're
allowed two and-a-half hours a day to study. But I never did. The only time I ever studied was when I did my minister's course.
MR. SHOEMAKER: So, you are a minister?
MR. KELLEY: I was.
MR. SHOEMAKER: You were, I'm sorry. You were a minister?
MR. KELLEY: Right, before I MR. SHOEMAKER: How long was that -- did that
MR. KELLEY: The course?
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- course take?
MR. KELLEY: That's an interesting story. That's something else the Commission should know about.
When the Iranian crisis was going on, there was a directive that came on -- that came down from above Flag that said all Sea Org. members - I don't know if it was Sea Org. members or if it was just Clearwater Sea, Org. members - had to finish their minister's course by the end of the month or go to the RPF.
MR. HATCHETT: A month?
MR. KELLEY: You had to finish the course.
And the only reason I can find.-- now this is -the two events are rather coincidental, but there was talk of the draft coming back. So, the entire staff
got through with their minister's course and got ordained.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And that course took you -- normally, how long did it take?
MR. KELLEY: About four or five weeks.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Four or five weeks -
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- to become an ordained minister?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Are you familiar with the Fair Game Doctrine?
MR. KELLEY: I've heard of it, but they've always said they denied it.
MR. SHOEMAKER: What was the general consensus of
MR. KELLEY: Well, the staff members, they feel it's been cancelled.
MR. SHOEMAKER: They feel it has been cancelled?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
And the other people that don't feel it's been cancelled is the GO.
MR. SHOEMAKER: What's the Fair Game Doctrine?
MR. KELLEY: Well, it's if you get out; you're fair game.
MR. SHOEMAKER: What does that mean to you?
MR. KELLEY: Basically, what it says. It's like: "If you're not with us, you're totally against us."
MR. SHOEMAKER*-. And what is allowed to occur to those of you that are totally against or
MR. KELLEY: It depends on how against they are. If they're vehemently and loudly against Scientology, making noise about it, then, the Fair Game Policy says that you go get them, that you discredit them, et cetera, et cetera.
MR. SHOEMAKER: What kinds of means can you use to do that?
MR. KELLEY: I don't know; I wasn't in the GO. I don't want to get into my supposition stages; I don't know.
MR. SHOEMAKER: I -- if I might ask -
MR. KELLEY: Just things that I've read or things that I'm familiar with the normal phone calls, cancelling flights, and
MR. SHOEMAKER: So, you're speaking, basically, about -
MR. KELLEY: Just on hearsay information, just on information that I have heard from others.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Yes,.sir, I understand. You're not you haven't been involved in it.
MR. KELLEY: Well, I have.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Oh, you have?
MR-. CALDERBANK: People who don't pay the money?
MR. KELLEY: No. The incident with my sister-in law that I stated yesterday. I look -- I guess I was fair game -- well, my brother was fair game, actually.
MR. SHOEMAKER: But the -- any type of general harrassment -- would you say that this was -- although the average Scientologist said this, did you believe that this occurred until the
MR. SHOEMAKER: this incident that happened
MR. SHOEMAKER: your sister-in-law?
MR. SHOEMAKER: You did not?
MR. KELLEY: No. The average Scientologist doesn't know that sort of thing goes on. He has no idea. He just thinks it's just something that the papers make up to sell papers.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Would you say that the -- to the best of your knowledge, that the situations which you've
described are probably still going on now or -
MR. KELLEY: I'd be very amazed if they weren't still happening. I know the men's dorm is no longer in effect. They don't have -- they just turned that into an office.
MR. SHOEMAKER: One other question: Mr. Kelley, I noticed today coming in there's a big sign out. Initially, there was a big sign on the Fort Harrison which-said that it was open to the public two p.m. on Sunday.
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Now, there's a big sign that says, "Open House from nine a.m. to nine p.m. today," which, I guess, is a plug that I just gave.
Would you expect this to be a normal type of a response, based upon some type of a public inquiry being made into the Church or -
That's what we did when Mr. Tenney was leading his pomp against Scientologists. When he started making a lot of noise, then, they opened their doors.
I used to be a security guard at the front desk at the Fort Harrison, also.
MR. SHOEMAKER: I know that there were a lot of
lights on last night when we went home.
MR. KELLEY: They were probably cleaning the place up.
MRS. GARVEY: Cleaning the place up?
MR. KELLEY: Well, you know, making it really shine in the public areas.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Thank you.
MR. LeCHER: When you were a security guard, what did you do as a security guard?
MR. KELLEY: Sat at the front desk at the Fort Harrison and just allowed no loonies to walk in, basically.
MR. LeCHER: What if a loony walked in, what would you do and
MR. KELLEY: Normally, help him walk out.
MR. LaCHER: Did you have a gun or billy -
MR. KELLEY: No, no. You got -- there was a club if you ever used it.
You just sat there and -- no, there is no guns at Fort Harrison, but there's a little -- there's a nightstick there, but no one ever uses it. That I know of, there was no guns.
MR. LeCHER: There was a directive -- about Fair Game, did you ever see a directive that the Fair Game
Policy had been cancelled by Ron or by -
MR. KELLEY: I never saw a policy letter, no.
MR. LeCHER: That it had been cancelled?
MR. KELLEY: No, I never had.
MR. LeCHER: You testified yesterday that you were, minister a and it took you five or six weeks to become a
MR. KELLEY: It took me about four weeks.
MR. LeCHER: Four weeks, all right. Were -- and you were ordained?
MR. LeCHER: By whom?
MR. KELLEY: Someone who finished the course about two weeks before I had. I can't remember her name.
MR. LeCHER: Well, what I'm getting at -
MR. KEMEY: Another Scientology minister.
MR. LeCHER: What I'm getting at is: I'm most, intrigued with your marriage because yesterday you said that you
were -- they never sent your license, back in to the Clerk's Office which confirms your marriage.
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: Is this standard that when a Scientologist gets married that it's not sent in because the
potential -for divorce is always so great?
MR. KELLEY: I honestly do not know. I think -- I have an idea that a friend of mine that's the way he did his. But I
have I have no concrete information on that. That's the kind of thing you didn't really -- until l had done it to me, I
didn't have any idea that that was even possible. And that wasn't too long before I got out of Scientology.
MR. LeCHER: As a minister, were you able to marry people?
MR. KELLEY: Certainly. I never did, because I was too nervous in front of other people. The marriage -- the Scientology marriage ceremony isn't bad; it's rather -- it's a nice little ceremony, but I wouldn't have been able to do one.
MR. LeCHER: I was curious as to how many real marriages there are.
The Sea Org.: Now, what is it, how does it function, who is in charge, when were you there, and what did you find?
MR. KELLEY: The Sea Org. is the overall, more or less, fraternal organization. It stands for Sea Organization. When Scientology -- when Ron was on the ship,
he found that sailors made better staff members. I have personal doubt about that. He found these people that were on -- if they could handle a life at sea, they could handle life as a staff member and be more capable. So, he formed the Sea Organization, I believe it was, in 1968.
So -- and he still had the regular organizations, but the Sea Organization was a fraternal organization. They have a billion-year contract; all Sea Org. members sign a billion-year contract.
And then, you can -- there's only several places where Sea Org. members work. One of them is here -- the main one is here; there's one in Los Angeles and New York, a couple of places in Europe. And they're usually upper level management personnel or, in this case, in the Flag case-, in the Flag Ship Org.
MR. LeCHER: Who is in charge?
MR. KELLEY: Ron's in charge.
MR. LeCHER: Does he have a lieutenant or a captain that's
MR. KELLEY: Oh, sure.
MR. LeCHER: -- in charge of the Sea Org.?
MR. KELLEY: He had -- not in terms of the Sea Org.
MR. LeCHER: Who gave the
MR. KELLEY: There's Captain Bill. There's rank in the Sea Org., also.
MR. LeCHER: Captain Bill?
MR. KELLEY: Yes. There's rank. You start as swamper, you go to. petty officer, you go to chief, you go to warrant officer, ensign, lieutenant, NJ -- it's like in the Navy.
MR. LeCHER: What were you?
MR. KELLEY: Swamper. I never
MR. LeCHER: Swamper?
MR. KELLEY: I never made it to petty officer, third class. I never went to study. Part of the things one of the things that -- one of the requirements for to be selected was you had to go to course, you had to study. And I never did. The only time I ever did was when I was doing the minister's course.
MR. LeCHER: How could a swamper or someone that someone as young as you, be entrusted to handle so much money?
MR. KELLEY: I didn't handle it, actually; I just looked at it. No, seriously, I didn't -- all I did was handle invoices. I wrote some invoices, but I had -- the actual money itself, the checks and the cash, very few
. 3-47
people handled that, very few.
I was -- I handled the invoices.
There are people that were younger than I am in positions of much greater responsibility, much greater and much younger: twelve, thirteen, you know.
MR. LeCHER: Twelve or thirteen years old?
MR. KELLEY: Right, Commodore's Messenger Organization. He's got a small army of them.
MR. LeCHER: An army of.twelve- or thirteen-year olds?
MR. KELLEY: Oh -- or younger, ten, maybe-. Ten might be the youngest.
MR. LeCHER: All right.
Tell me about the messengers. Are they messengers or are they army?
MR. KELLEY: They're messengers. They're children that
MR. LeCHER: Army of messengers?
MR. KELLEY: No -- well, I said small army.
MR. LeCHER: Are they like pages?
MR. KELLEY: They're a -- sometimes. And sometimes they're like the executives. A lot of them do executive --
some of the -- most of the younger ones don't have positions of vast authority, but if one of them had
told me what to do, I would have said, "Yes, sir."
MR. LeCHER: He would have
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: What is the CMO?
MR. KELLEY: Commodore's Messenger Org.
MR. LeCHER: And that's what we're talking about now?
MR. KELLEY: Right. They're the guys with the blue lanyards.
MR. LeCHER: The blue manuals?
MR. KELLEY: Lanyards.
MR. LeCHER: Lanyards, oh. They're walking I've seen them.
MR. KELLEY: If you see one with just blue in it, that's probably someone in the Commodore's Messenger Organization.,
MR. LeCHER: Probably.
MR. KELLEY: Then, there's -- the blue lanyard means Ron's personal staff.
MR. LeCHER: Ron's personal staff?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: They would handle -- they're the ones that handle most of the money?
3-49 1
MRS. GARVEY: No, no.
MR. KELLEY: No, no, I didn't say that.
The ones that handle most of the money are the treasury personnel, the Director of-Income, the Treasury Secretary. At the level I was at, you know, we're like I said, European money goes somewhere -- I have no idea where it is. Who knows who handles that money?
MR. LeCHER: What is -- are there many members of Ron's personal staff in Clearwater?
MR. KELLEY: I would guess around a hundred.
MR. LeCHER: What is their -- why does Ron need that hundred people in Clearwater? What is their main function?
MR. KELLEY: To keep an eye on the Clearwater operation.
MR. LeCEER: To keep an eye on you or me?
MR. KELLEY: No. To keep an eye on -
MR. LeCHER: On the money?
MR. KELLEY:' On the money and the technical delivery and the management organization. To keep an eye on everything.
They also do what are called missions. They will come into your area and almost take it over, like if your area or your office was doing -- the Commodore's
Messenger Organization would come in on a mission and investigate, find out why things- have gone downhill.
MR. BERFIELD: Is this like a Gestapo?
MR. KELLEY: They'renot very pleasant people to deal with. That's the way I always felt about -- I only had one
mission in my time there in my area, and it was not a pleasant experience.
MR. LeCHER: What happens if you fall in disfavor with a CMO member?
MR. KELLEY: You'll soon find yourself in a b-lue tee shirt scrubbing a garage, usually. Those -- those guys don't mess around. They will -- I was told point blank once: "One more"
MR. LeCHER: Threats.
Sir, I'm sorry. Will you give me your experience with the CMO.-,
MR. KELLEY: They're just -- one thing was when I was going -- when I had a CMO mission in my area, it was originally thought that I was the reason for the entire organization's downfall. The entire organizatign's statistics were on a downward slide, and they originally thought it was from me because I had -wasn't giving accurate information. So, I was in a lot of heat from everybody. And this was also the time of