Clearwater City Hall Clearwater, Florida Friday, May 7,, 1982
City of Clearwater City Commission:
Charles LeCher, Mayor
Thomas Bustin, City Attorney
Anthony L. Shoemaker, City Manager
Rita Garvey, City Commissioner
Paul Hatchett, Vice Mayor
James Calderbank, City Commissioner
James Berfield, City Commissioner
Sue Lamkin, City Clerk
Cyndie Goudeau, City Clerk
Michael J. Flynn, Esquire
12 Union Wharf
Boston, Massachusetts 02109
Thomas Greene, Esquire
12 Union Wharf
Boston, Massachusetts 02109
Thomas Hoffman, Esquire
12 Union Wharf
Boston, Massachusetts 02109
Kevin Flynn
12 Union Wharf
Boston, Massachusetts 02109
Witness Page
Casey Kelley 5
Rosie Pace 89
Edward Walters 118
Rosie Pace 122
Edward Walters 123
Rosie Pace 125
David Ray 141
Ernest Hartwell 225
Adell Hartwell 261
George Meister 301
Number Description Page
30 HCO policy letter, dated June 1959, 76
regarding duplicate contracts,
releases, and promissory notes
31 Form affidavit 77
32 Affidavit of Janet Troy 80
33 Non-Enturbulation Order, dated Novem- 116
ber 29, 1981
34 committee of Evidence Report 122
36 Policy letter, entitled "Governing 226
I N D E X - Continued
Number Description Page
37 Document, entitled "List of Services, 231'
Church of Scientology, The Flag Land
38 Document, entitled "Accommodations," 231
describinq the Fort Harrison Hotel
39 Document describing donations 231
40 HCO policy letter, dated October 21, 300
1968, regarding "Cancellation of
Fair Game
41 Letter, dated 8/5/71, from Susan 318
42 Letter, dated 12/5/71, from Susan 315
43 Letter, dated July 7, 1971, to 319
George Meister
44 Letterr, dated August 19, 1971, to 328
Well County Health Department
Clearwater, Florida May 7, 1982 Morning Session
MR. LeCHER: All right.
Ladies and gentlemen, this meeting will come to order. Let's bow our heads for the prayer.
We pray for the understanding that we do not give too much attention to a single happening but rather understand its place in the overall picture of good, which is God's perfect plan. our understanding heart enables us to keep every perspective so that we move through each day on an even keel; we are free from any tendency to resist the-events of the day or to feel that things are not working out. Our understanding lets us see each happening in its relation to the whole.
We pray, to understand truth from fiction and the wisdom to know the difference. Amen.
Will you please rise for the Pledge led by Chief Klein.
(Whereupon, the Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)
MR. LeCHER: Welcome back to the third consecutive day of the City Commission Hearings with respect to Scientology. Again, we're here to -- not to question
the faith of the Church, but external activities, business activities, with respect to the City of Clearwater.
We have been listening for the past few days, and. yesterday we left with a man named Casey Kelley, who has been previously sworn in.
Mr. Flynn, is that -- should we go through the ceremony of swearing in again, or is he still sworn in?
MR. FLYNN: That won't be necessary, Mavor; he's still under oath.
MR. LeCHER: All right.
CASEY KELLEY, a witness herein, having been previously sworn by a Clerk for the City of Clearwater, was examined and testified as follows:
MR. LeCHER: Mr. Kelley, you were speaking yesterday from the general outline.
Is there anything else you'd like to add before we ask you some more questions?
MR. KELLEY: No. I'm ready to answer questions.
MR. LeCHER: Okay.
I will start off with a few and, then, go to my right.
You testified yesterday that on a good week you'd take. in a million dollars in Clearwater and an average
week would be four to five hundred thousand dollars and,on an exceptional week, 2.3 million dollars in the City of Clearwater, which is the largest of any of the cities in the country, possibly the world.
All that money that was taken in - and I don't want you to name names but. -- are there many Church-related businesses in the City of Clearwater? And to your knowledge, has any of that money been siphoned off or skimmed to support businesses within the City of Clearwater?
I don't want you to name businesses because of the possible blackmail
MR. KELLEY: Right.
I won't name any because I don't know of any.
If that is done, it's done -- it was done without my knowledge.
MR. LeCHER: You did say, though, yesterday that you looked at every invoice coming in?
MR. KELLEY: 'But no invoices going out.
MR. LeCHER: No invoices going out, just
MR. KELLEY: Right.
I didn't see the checks going out.
MR. LeCHER: Did the Church prefer to do business
with their own?
MR. KELLEY: When possible. To my knowledge, there weren't that many Scientology businesses in the area.
MR. LeCHER: And when were you last there?
MR. KELLEY: October of 1980.
MR. LeCHER: When I see these young people walking up and down the street, can they all afford these expensive courses or are they indentured for various Years to Day for those courses?
MR. KELLEY: The majority of them are indentured or on course now. A lot of the students that you see going back and forth between Clearwater buildings and the Fort Harrison are outer organization students or students that are staff members at another org. in another city, and they're just here because here we've got the best-- training. It's world renowned in the Scientology world that the best training is done here.
So, consequently, these outer orgs. send their students here just to be Flag trained. That's-like a -it's real important. It's a real honor and status, as it were.
MR. LeCHER: Well, if you were young and you don't have family money and you only make $8.60 a week to $20.00 a week, how in the world are you or anyone else
able eventually or ultimately pay all that money back?
MR. KELLEY: You only -- a staff member doesn't have to as long as he stays on staff.
MR. LeCHER: But didn't another witness -
MR. KELLEY: The courses are free if you work for the organization.
MR. LeCHER: Oh, they're free if you work for the organization?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
You still have to sign the waivers and bonds and the promissory notes. For example
MR. LeCHER: If you leave, is that money a debt -that you owe to them?
MR. KELLEY: Sort of. It's made to think like you have to pay it back, but, in fact, it's not a legal debt. If I wanted to get back in Scientology now, I'd have to pay back for all the courses that I've already done.- And that is a lot of money; that's thousands for the courses that I've already done.
MR. LeCHER: Can you estimate how much it would cost for you to buy your way back into the organization?
MR. KELLEY: I have no idea what my freeloader's debt is. It's probably thirty to forty thousand dollars, easy
MR. LeCHER: Thirty to forty thousand?
MR. LeCHER: And you were only in the Church of Scientology for three years?
MR. KELLEY: Three years.
MR. LeCHER: That's an average of ten thousand a year.
MR. KELLEY: That's cheap.
MR. LeCHER: That's cheap?
MR. KELLEY: Relatively.
There's people here that spend like seventy thousand dollars a year or more.
MR. LeCHER: Seventy thousand a year or more?
MR. KELLEY: Or more.
MR. LeCHER: Do you know -- would you like to be specific as to-- any names or
MR. KELLEY: Well, I don't know if that's a fair thing to do for a public person. There's a
MR. LeCHER: I don't -
MR. KELLEY: -- a man here from Europe who's been here for the three years I was here, he was only gone for about two weeks the whole time -
MR. LeCHER: Well, if that's the way they worship and that's what they want to do
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: -- I wouldn't want to
MR. KELLEY: But there are people that spend seventy, eighty thousand dollars a year.
MR. FLYNN: One moment, Mayor.
MR. KELLEY: I was -- one of the things was I was working for seventy, eighty hours a week, but I still had to sign the promissory notes to pay back in case I didn't complete my contract. My contract was a billion years.
MR. LeCHER: A billion years?
All staff members that are staff here have signed a billion-year contract.
MR. SHOEMAKER: Excuse me.
Mr. Kelley, when you're referring to staff, is that the Sea Org?
MR. KELLEY: Sea Org. staff, yes.
MR. SHOEMAKER: And that is a one billion-year contract?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: Would a well-known personality, such as John Travolta, would he pay more than the average person or -- is it the ability to pay as to how much you pay for courses?
MR. KELLEY: No. It's -- it's a flat rate.
MR. KELLEY: The problem is the rate was pretty high. They -- those people pay the same price as anyone else.,
MR. LeCHER: You would pay as much as a college student?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: Can you walk me through a typical day in the Church of Scientology
MR. KELLEY: It's'a
MR. LeCHE-R: From our Point of view?
MR. KELLEY: Right, from my experience in Clearwater.
Boy, if I can remember. You get up at eight, seven-thirty or eight -- I'm trying to remember now. You eat breakfast, be on post by nine, nine-fifteen, work until lunch, had an hour for lunch, then, work from twelve-forty-five in the afternoon until five-forty-five at night -- in the afternoon, an hour for dinner, and then from six-forty-five until ten-thirty at night. Every day.
You got a day off every other week if your statistics were up.
MR. LeCHER: If your stats were down, what happened to you?
MR. KELLEY: You didn't get you didn't have a
liberty; you kept working.
MR. LeCHER: Explain to me the stats again for the benefit of the new people watching.
MR. KELLEY: Well -- my stats?
MR. LeCHER: No, no, what stats mean.
MR. KELLEY: Statistics -- you're graded by your
statistics. Supposedly, in the organization, you're not
graded by personality or who you know but by your
statistics; that's what counts. It's statistics.
Whatever it is that you do, say -- say, you're the Director of Income, your statistics would be how much money you brought in. And if that graph is going up, then, you would get a liberty. If this graph was going down, you'd stay on post that day.
There was one period when I went three mOnths without a liberty, not a day off.
MR. LeCHER: Three months?
MR. KELLEY: Maybe four, at least three.
MR. LeCHER: Most of this money that came in, was it coming in from local people or from outside people?
MR. KELLEY: It was coming from outside. much of it
was coming in from Europe.
MR. LeCHER: Much of it from Europe?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MR. LeCHER: Okay.
I'd like to now give my colleagues a chance. And I'll start with Mrs. Garvey to my immediate right -- far right.
MRS. GARVEY: Mr. Kelley, I'd like to ask you to expand a little bit on what.were your stats? How were you graded?
MR. KELLEY: I had a really difficult major statistic, because what I did was find information. I spent a lot of time in treasury. I didn't do one specific thing every day. So, I roamed around and did what was needed, whether it be photocopying three thousand copies-of something or whatever it was. So, I just kept kind of a point value system.
MRS. GARVEY: For every job you did -
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MRS. GARVEY: -- you got
MR. KELLEY: This was worth so many points -- it was something I worked out between my superior and myself, this point value system that we had worked out.
MRS. GARVEY: What did you do from six-thirty to
ten o'clock at night? The same --
MR. KELLEY: Oh, no. It was varied -- for my job, it varied daily.
I'd make a list of who -- I'd make an arrivals list, who arrived, and I made a list of who was there. And I distributed -- I'd type that up in four copies and run that around the org. so various people around the organization knew who had arrived the day before. That took up most of my morning.
Then, in the afternoon, I would go get some photocopies or you get on the phone and you find phone numbers 47or people to make a phone list. It would vary daily.
MRS. GARVEY: How many people would you record in, roughly?
MR. KELLEY: I can remember, on weekly -- new ones? It's hard to remember because, after a while, I didn't count people who had made a payment of five -- fifty dollars or less; I didn't add them onto my list. There was a bunch of those.
MRS.-GARVEY: What would be, say, a typical course price for someone --
M~,. KELLEY: A thousand dollars.
MRS. GARVEY: A thousand dollars is typical?
MR. KELLEY: Fifteen hundred.
There were courses, little courses, that were much cheaper. I think the cheapest course they had when I was there was $300.00, three hundred and fifty.
MRS. GARVEY: Would you explain to the public what a freeloader's debt is?
MR. KELLEY: A staff member -- for example, each course that I did or each auditing action that I did, I signed a promissory note: "If I do not complete my contract, I will pay back X amount of dollars for this course." well, that stuff's all kept in a file somewhere and, then, when you leave -- normally, when a person leaves - doesn't complete his contract - what you're supposed to do is go through this rout out.
You're supposed to go see like ten different people. of the things they do is they figure up your freeloader's debt. They take all the courses and the auditing that you've gotten -- received while you're a staff member and say, "You owe us this amount." And you're pay it back. But it's - it's made to -- it's made to seem like a legal debt. There's very few people that - in my experience - ever paid their freeloader debt off and came back on staff and became a Scientologist in good standing
MRS. GARVEY: Do most people know that it's not a
legal debt?
MR. KELLEY: I think so, because I didn't see that -many payments come in.
MRS. GARVEY: But if they had left the organization, they obviously wouldn't want to pay to get back in?
MR. KELLEY: Not necessarily.
MRS. GARVEY: But you did see some payments come in?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
I know two people in North Dakota, a man and his wife, and their combined freeloader debt was $300,000.00.
MRS. GARVEY: Were -- did they -
MR. KELLEY: And they were paying it back fifteen dollars a week.
MR. LeCHER: Until it's paid off?
.MR. LeCHER: Go ahead.
MRS. GARVEY: Would you explain to me, please, what Flag Base is?
MR. KELLEY: When Scientology was headquartered on the ship, when the Sea Org. was on the ship - I don't recall
it was the Flag Ship. Scientology at that time had six or seven ships, I believe. It was the Flag Ship and the little
fleet. When they came on land, first in Orlando, they
became known as the Flag Land Base. It's just a -- it's just another way of saying religious retreat, I guess.
MRS. GARVEY: Is it the central base of the organization?
MRS. GARVEY: So, all orders would come out of the Flag Base?
MR. KELLEY: Or else from wherever Ron was -- where LRH was giving orders; it would come from him.
Most of the orders to the organizations come from here to the West coast organization.
MRS. GARVEY: So, if Ron Hubbard was sending an order, it would come through Clearwater Flag Base?
MR. KELLEY: Right, usually.
Most of -
MRS. GARVEY: So, whatever happens comes through here?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MRS. GARVEY: What got you into the organization in the first place? I know we've heard some of the past people talk about the leader's -- Mr. Hubbard's background was so impressive that they just felt that he had so much to offer that they just had to go.
What got you into it?
MR. KELLEY: That was a minor part of it for me.
I never really did buy this L. Ron Hubbard privilege
stuff. I never -- I wasn't a very good Scientologist
because I always had wandering doubts about Ron. You
know, "If he's so magnanimous, why doesn't he show up
and say 'Hello' once in a while?"
Getting back to the question: I was going to college at the time when I got in. And it -- I was idealistic, ailso, you know, I was eighteen. And I was on my own for the first time. Someone said, "Hey, let's go to this open house, you know, they have a seminar." And I said, "Okay." we went to the seminar and I thought it wasn't -too bad. They had a course you could do, so I did the course.
And it was a communications course. It was the basic course that almost everyone does. And from there I was hooked, but that gets us into another realm.
MRS. GARVEY: What did you get? I mean, did you get any promises? Did you feel that they were 'promising you something that was going to happen?
MR. KELLEY: I felt like things were going to be a lot easier in life, you know. I felt like, "Boy, Scientology is really
good, for the good of the planet. It's really going to help mankind."
You know, I joined the Sea Org. to help stamp out insanity, criminal -- war and crime; insanity, war, and crime. I thought that I was doing something great for the human race.
MRS. GARVEY: Were you promised anything when you joined the Sea Org.? What did they tell you was going to happen to you when you joined the Sea Org., other than to stamp out war and crime and insanity?
MR. KELLEY: That's a little vague, isn't it?
I'm trying to remember what my recruiter did tell me.
MRS. GARVEY: About -- what about living conditions: where you were going to be, what your work schedule was going to be, what your job was?
MR. KELLEY: I really don't think -- I don't recall them ever discussing that sort of thing because every- one even if
they would have told me, I wouldn't have cared, you know, because my purpose was so -- that's what I wanted to do
so bad. "I'm going to Flag, wow." Needless to say, I was a bit disenchanted when I saw the men's dorm.
MRS. GARVEY: What did you expect to find at Flag?
MR. KELLEY: I expected to find maybe four people to a room
MRS. GARVEY: A college dorm-type situation?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MRS. GARVEY: Do you know if -- you know., one of the things that's promised -- or there are three things.
Auditing, did you do auditing?,
MR. KELLEY: I audited and was audited.
MRS. GARVEY: And were you told that the auditing information was going to be confidential?
MRS. GARVEY: Would you, in fact, have gone through auditing if you had known it would be used against you at a later time?
MRS. GARVEY: Were you promised a refund if you
MR. KELLEY: I never paid for auditing.
MRS. GARVEY: You were staff; that's right.
MR. KELLEY: I paid for a course.
MRS. GARVEY: Were you -- oh -- was there any -are you aware of any illnesses or mistreatment of children or lack of treatment for children? Were you ever in that part of the building?
MR. KELLEY: My wife was. Before the -- whoever is in charge of that in the city, the Board of Health, whoever deals with that
MRS. GARVEY: You don't know who was in charge of that when your wife was -
MR. KELLEY: No, I'm trying to remember who in the city was in charge of that: the Board of Health or whoever it is that looks into nursery situations.
Before they looked into it, I know there was a condition of overcrowding i~ the nursery. They moved the children out to the Quality Inn. And since then, my knowledge was fairly -- it was up to standards.
But one thing that they did do as a policy action, which I feel should be known, is they put, what I call, a baby ban. They allowed no more staff members -
MRS. GARVEY: Baby what?
MRS. GARVEY: Baby ban?
MR. KELLEY: That's what -- that's my own term.
MR. KELLEY: Don't quote them, quote me. They allowed no more staff members to have children. It was forbidden because there was no more room in the nursery. If you had a child -- if your wife-got pregnant, you would have had to leave; you would have had to go to Los Angeles or Saint Hill or something.
MRS. GARVEY: You'd still be in the Sea Organization
3-22 MR. KELLEY: Right. You'd still be in the Sea Org.
MRS. GARVEY: but you'd have to go someplace else?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MRS. GARVEY: Why is that?
MR. KELLEY: Because there was no room in the nursery for any additional children.
MRS. GARVEY: But there were in the other areas?
MR. KELLEY: Right.
MRS. GARVEY: Did you ever keep track of the news in the area? You know, did you read the newspaper or listen to radio or television?
MR. KELLEY: We were kind of discouraged from reading the Clearwater Sun for obvious reasons.
MRS. GARVEY: Did you keep track of -
MR. KELLEY: We really didn't care. It wasn't Important to us. It wasn't.
What were you told about the Guardian Office?
MR. KELLEY: That they made the environment safe for Scientology to expand. That's their purpose, so we were told.
we -- the average Scientologist doesn't know about the Guardian's Office clandestine activities. And we thought they
were a real good bunch of people. We thought they had a lot of courage to go out there and fight these, you know --
Cazares and all these guys. We thought that was a real tough job and they were doing real good at it. They were
looked up to.
MRS. GARVEY: Thank you.
MR. LeCHER: Before Mr. Hatchett, I just want to say that we're going to try and get 'Live witnesses through today,
and we're running out of time. And so, I certainly don't want to stifle any of the Commissioners or the witnesses or
staff, but let's try and move it. Mr. Hatchett.
MR. HATCHETT: I will, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Kelley, while you were here in Clearwater at Flag, were you aware or did you
ever secure a legitimate ID from the IRS?
MR. KELLEY: Say that again?
MR. HATCHETT: Did you ever get an IRS ID?
MR. HATCHETT: Internal Revenue.
MR. KELLEY: What about them?.
MR. HATCHETT: That's your ID number, the tax
exempt number. Did you have any knowledge --
MR. KELLEY: I had none.
MR. KELLEY: I never filed a tax return when I was here.
MR. HATCHETT: I beg your pardon?
MR. KELLEY: I never filed a tax form when I lived here.
MR. HATCHETT: I'm talking about the organization itself.
MR. KELLEY: I have no idea what their tax
MR. HATCHETT: Were you aware -- did they ever have an IRS
MR. KELLEY: I knew they were tax exempt, but I had no idea what the specifics were.
MR. HATCHETT: Well, those thirty to forty bank accounts in the Pinellas County area, were they actually in the Church of Scientology's name?
MR. KELLEY: To my knowledge, they were. They weren't all in the Pinellas County area. They had banks in Tampa, around the area.
MR. HATCHETT: Who normally made those deposits by name?
MR. KELLEY:. He was the Finance Banking Officer;.
that was the post title. I don't remember -- do you want a specific name?
MR. HATCHETT: I want a specific name.
MR. KELLEY: I'm trying to remember. Chris Smith.
MR. HATCHETT: S-m-i-t-h?
MR. KELLEY: Yes, Smith.
MR. HATCHETT: Thank you. That's all the questions I have.
MR. LeCHER: Mr. Shoemaker, do you have anything you'd like to ask?
MR. SHOEMAKER: Yes, sir.
Mr. Kelley, by the way, I know you were nervous yesterday and I know you're-nervous this morning
MR. KELLEY: I'm not nervous now.
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- and I know that it's kind of a trauma to be--going through this. And everybody here really appreciates your coming in and talking to us. I wanted to, if you don't mind -- to -- if you could go into a little bit more detail about the regging -
MR. KELLEY: Regging?
MR. SHOEMAKER: -- regging, in terms of what the person did, specifically, and what the result of these recruiters were when they came back and so forth?
MR. KELLEY: The results were that they made a lot