MR. CALDERBANK: Did you see any certificates on the wall from the state or the county, either for nursing or as an
education for a doctor when this person gave you the shot?
MS. TAVERNA: I asked him if he was a doctor and he said, "No."
MR. CALDERBANK: And he gave you the shot?
MR. CALDERBANK. Is this a common practice that the Medical officer would do?
MS. TAVERNA: I never heard of it before. But every person who came to Clearwater got the shot; it's the first stop
on their routing form. But I never heard of it before Clearwater.
MR. CALDERBANK: Okay. While you were at Fort Harrison, there are exits to and from the hotel. Were they clearly marked? Do you remember markings "Exit" or "Fire"?
MS. TAVERNA: I think so. It was once ordered that there was an alarm on it and never to use that door. It said, "Exit." And I think if you opened it up some
alarm went off.
MR. CALDERBANK: Were there any instructions in front of the door?
MS. TAVERNA: I don't clearly remember.
MR. CALDERBANK: Do you remember any trash or rubbish laying around or tight quarters that would obstruct fire personnel or block exits to and from the building?
MS. TAVERNA: Well, I would say, tight quarters that I would think, it's my opinion, that, if there was
a fire, with how many people were in each room, it would be very, very hectic trying to get out of the building, because each rcrom had ten people. It's a very small room. The hallways were very, very narrow.
I hadn't thought about it when I was there, but looking at it..now, it would probably be chaos.
MR. CALDERBANK: How would you characterize the living conditions there? Would you characterize them as safe and clean and sanitary or unsanitary and unhealthy?
Ms. TAVERNA: I would classify it as unsanitary and very, very uncomfortable. With ten people in the room in the middle of the summer with no air conditioners and a lot of bugs crawling around, it was very, very
uncomfortable and unsanitary.
MR. LeCHER: One bathroom?
MS. TAVERNA: One bathroom in the room, and we had to be on post at eight o'clock. It was very difficult to take a
shower and find the right time to do whatever you had to do in the bathroom.
MR. CALDERBANK: Now, was this herpes outbreak here in Clearwater?
MS. TAVERNA: No. This was in Los Angeles.
MR. CALDERBANK: Do you have any knowledge of hepatitis -- was there any hepatitis outbreak at Fort. Harrison while you were there?
MS. TAVERNA: I don't know. I didn't hear about it.
MR. CALDERBANK: Okay. On the--- you were talking about the policy of bringing people back or the RPF, et cetera. Did you ever see anybody restrained or held against their will? Did you ever hear of anybody held or brought back?
MS. TAVERNA: I'm trying to think. I know -- I've positively heard of people being gotten and brought back, positively.
MR. CALDERBANK: Is this common knowledge?
MR. CALDERBANK: If you left, you would be brought back?
MS. TAVERNA: This is accepted. This is in the bulletin or policy. I think it's called Blown Students. It's in one of the training -- one of the policies concerning -- it's very -- it's not secret; it's out in the open. And I'm a trained supervisor and I studied it and checked out on this material where it says, ,If a student blows, you're to do such and such -- call them."
if they don't come if you're to go to their home, physically, and bring them back. This is common knowledge to Scientologists.
MR. CALDERBANK: How much money did you pay while you were a Scientologist to the organization, approximately?
Ms. TAVERNA: Well, in all these years -- when I was- it wasn't as expensive when I came in 1965. 1 would have to just guess. In services, I probably ten $10,000.00 to fifteen thousand. In traveling expenses and living expenses for myself and my three children in England for six months, in California from England, I would say, maybe $30,000.00 I've spent. In loss of business, times that I left to go to this Ops Z and
everything else, maybe $50,000.00, 1 would say, of money lost.
MR. CALDERBANK: Out of the services you-paid for, did you ever think of it as a donation or did you pay specifically for a service?
MS. TAVERNA: No. There's no such thing as a donation in Scientology for a service. The only donation would be something to the -- I don't know what they call it, but I've donated to it many times, the legal fund. And I thought I was helping people who were being victimized by the government. They would always call me up because I would always give them $50.00, you know, because they knew I worked and had some money.
But that's the only donation I know of in Scientology. It's -- no one has ever mentioned the word to
me. I've never heard it mentioned to any person who came in for a service. It's what course you want; this costs it
costs this much money. You must pay for your course in full, specifically the amount that it lists on the card. And
then, you can start your service.
MR. CALDERBANK: What made you take the service? Why would you spend $15,000.00 for the services?
MS. TAVERNA: Well, it isn't a -- see, when I came in, I didn't come in and spend $15,000.00.The most
I ever paid at one time -- I paid for every level they had. In those days, for all the OT levels, it cost a little over $2,000.00, which now would cost a few hundred thousand dollars, maybe. So, that's the largest amount of money I ever paid, which I figured at the time the thing they used for promotion was that for the price of a car, at twenty -- at that time, twenty something hundred dollars, you can have eternal freedom or spiritual freedom.
It seemed so ridiculous. Why go buy a car when you can gain all this that was promised. It didn't seem like a large amount of money. So, I never paid these large sums.- I took a course at $500.00.
I mainly audited and was a staff member. I think I was mainly interested in helping other people. I didn't receive much auditing. I've had very little auditing in Scientology. I didn't feel the need for it. I've been in relatively good shape and I didn't really require much auditing.
MR. CALDERBANK: Did you ever tell people while you were auditing them that it would not cure their specific sicknesses and that it had no medical basis
MS. TAVERNA: I didn't as an auditor. But it states on the E-Meter that "This does not cure illness."
And I think, when people sign up, they have to sign something that "I'm not here to cure a specific illness."
MR. CALDERBANK: That's all.
MR. LeCHER: Mr. Berfield.
MR. BERFIELD: I have just a couple of questions here.
You spoke very highly of Mr. Hubbard. I take it that you do not believe in him any longer?
MS. TAVERNA: No, I don't.
MR. BERFIELD: What about his doctrines and philosophies? Do you still-have confidence in them?
MS. TAVERNA: No, I don't.
MR. BERFIELD: If you were to take some of these books and read them now, how would you look upon them?
MS. TAVERNA: I have done that. I have read over some of the material which was, I suppose, like a bible to me. And I found out some very fascinating things. I have gone through tremendous emotional upset in the last few months trying to get my mind straight from thinking for seventeen years it's very difficult. And I wanted to: I picked up some of the books and I looked at some of the policies, and it's like reading something that I've never read before. The interpretation that I put
on it was my own ideas. I thought it meant what I wanted it to mean. Looking at things now, it says that if a person disagrees they must have a misunderstood word or something to that effect. I see the technology as totally, totally different now.
MR. BERFIELD: Do you -- would you envision it as being misleading to the public?
MS. TAVERNA: Definitely misleading.
MR. BERFIELD: To the point where one could call it fraud or not?
MS. TAVERNA: In my opinion, it is totally fraud.
MR. BERFIELD: Just a couple of other questions here: One of our purposes in this hearing is, needless to say, our concern with health, safety, and welfare of the people in Clearwater.
You mentioned these children. As a mother, the safety or the health of those children, how would you look upon that? Do you think the City of Clearwater has done a disservice to them?
MS. TAVERNA: I don't think I understand the question? What is it you want
MR. BERFIELD: Well, are we performing our duties if these children at the Fort Harrison are going unattended?
MS. TAVERNA: No. I feel that attention should be put on the children in Scientology. I feel that they are -- they have
no say in this. Their parents are Scientologists. The children are neglected. And I think someone should do
something about it.
Mr. Calderbank also asked you a question about the number of people in a room, ten to a room. You did mention, I believe, that you had some High authority inspections. Did you ever have any inspections from the Fire Marshall?
MS. TAVERNA: Yes, regularly.
MR. BERFIELD: How -- what did they say when they'd come to a room that had ten beds in it?
MS. TAVERNA: Oh, I never saw them come into the room ever. We-were just informed that they were going to be on the premises tomorrow. I don't what they looked at. I was doing my course and my auditing. I was never in a room where they walked in.
MR. BERFIELD: Do you know for a fact whether or not they were given advance notice of these visitations by the various governmental agencies?
MS. TAVERNA: I don't know how they found out, but they knew the day -- or they knew, I don't know how
much before, but they always told us when it was going to happen.
MR. BERFIELD: You also mentioned earlier that a woman had spent somewhere in the neighborhood of two to three hundred thousand dollars on programs. Do you know that for a fact?
MS. TAVERNA: Well, the person told me they did. I mean, I didn't see the money.
MR. BERFIELD: One -- I guess the last question and I don't really know how to word this - but going on two points: Do you have any fear of retaliation from being here today?
MS. TAVERNA: I can say I don't know what to expect. In the beginning, when I first started this - which I haven't really explained why I'm doing this, I mean, what brought-this about, which I think is significantI was in terror. I was in absolute fear when I made my first move to find out some more information. I would be cautious, I would say.
MR. BERFIELD: I guess the last part of this, the one that bothers me the most: While.you were having your
problems, do I interpret - and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth - that you felt that in the City of Clearwater
there was no safe haven or no one to turn
to for help?
MS. TAVERNA: It never even entered my mind. Through all the years of Scientology, it is embedded in you that you never speak to an outsider about internal problems. In other words, the technology is out. It's like a -- just a code of ethics, like, in other words, if we have a problem in Scientology and somebody is wrong, you don't go to an offical because then they would think Scientology is bad, Ron Hubbard is bad. so, we just don't consider things like that. I never -- it never entered my mind. I thought I had to get out through Scientology,-I had to rout out.
MR. BERFIELD: So, you had to go out through the system and, then,.you
Ms. TAVERNA: Yes. I never considered telling an outsider, because they would then hot understand that Ron Hubbard was good and it's only these few people. You have to keep it secret and you keep it internal. You try to write up reports and try to protect Ron Hubbard and the organization.
MR. BERFIELD: Just one last one: Not to bear on your personal problems, but your divorce was caused by Scientology?
MS. TAVERNA: I wouldn't say it was caused by
Scientology. I believe it was a contributing f actor because most Scientologists don't associate with WOGs. I was one of the few exceptions, that I achieved this high state and my husband was still a WOG. I was the only one in Scientology at the time, and I was known for it.
And people would constantly say to me, "How could you stand it? How could you stand it?" And I couldn't
communicate things in Scientology terms to my husband, and I would always be with Scientologists. And I didn't
create my marriage properly because I did start to consider him an outsider. It's like -- it did 't cause it. Scientology
didn't do anything to my marriage. It's my own distance that was created within it.
MR. BERFIELD: No further questions.
MR. LeCHER: You started before, and I'll ask you the'q uestion: What brought you here today?
MS. TAVERNA: After I left Clearwater, I felt that I had just escaped with my life. I really felt that I had been to a hell
and that I was alive again. And I just I knew that I would never, ever be on staff or have anything to do with
Scientology again. I didn't care if I wasn't contributing anymore.
I said, "If it's that bad, let them fix it up. I had no intentions of doing anything against Scientology. I just wanted to stay away.
And then, I went recently, in November of this year - just this past November - I went to California to live with my sister. And Scientologists would constantly visit because that's basically the only friends they would have the Scientologists. And I was feeling good, standing very well thought of, and they kept telling me stories.
And finally, I couldn't stand it anymore. A particular friend came over to the house - she had just received her NOTS auditing - and she came in and she said how wonderful she was feeling, that she went to a restaurant, she was eating a hamburger, and all of a sudden the Iiimburger started screaming at her, and then the walls started screaming. And then she said tears came out of her eyes because she felt so sorry for the other people in the restaurant because they didn't know what she knew.
And I got tears in my eyes, and I said, "They can't do this anymore. I want answers." And I looked at the grade
chart, and I noticed that a lot of the OT levels were taken off and they were replaced with NOTS;
every OT level was NOTS. And it became horrifying to me.I said, "I can't-sit back anymore. I want answers. So, I just -- I looked through Paulette Cooper's book, Scandal -- I said, "Maybe, she'll give me a clue." Because up until then -a Scientologist never reads anything bad about Scientology. You assume it's a lie immediately, so I was too ignorant to read it at the time.
I couldn't get that book. I called Reader's Digest. I looked and finally, I got in touch with a man named Brown
McKee. And I spoke with him. He was a declared suppressive, I had heard, who was trying to save Scientology --
quote, "Suppressive Person." So, I said, "I have never talked to a Suppressive Person in seventeen years." It is a
high crime; it is a terrifying experience. It took me two days to get up the courage to call Brown McKee.
I called him. He was one of the nicest people. He was in Scientology twenty-five years. As a matter of fact, he was on one of the courses I was. He's a Class 8 auditor and so forth. He had the same feelings I had all these years that something's wrong. And he all of a sudden, I tried to find another person and
another person.
I met Eddie Walters. And we all felt -- and I saw more and more of my friends being damaged. And I said, "I want answers now. I want to know where Ron Hubbard is. I want to know who is running Scientology." I asked them at the advanced organization in Los Angeles. I said, "Who are the Board of Directors? Who is the Watchdog Committee?" This is a committee which no one knows who it is. 'And I couldn't get any answers.
And finally, I started to have thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard. I said, "Wait." I started waking up. I figured it took this time from Clearwater to be away from Scientology. I started thinking straight. And I said, "We are being audited towards more ability, more freedom, more capability to OT," which is operating being or thetan. "How-could Ron Hubbard, who is more capable than any of us be more and more capable and he's hiding for fifteen years? Where is he? Why isn't he helping? why isn't he coming forward? What" -- so, I asked the people in Scientology in the Sea Org. "Security."
I said, "I've been hearing 'security' for ten years. I had -- I don't understand it anymore." I said, "Security? Why doesn't he go on film and give a briefing to Scientologists in the world?" I was getting
more and more upset. I said, "I want answers now. Who is running this? What kind of organization is this?" I saw the crimes happening.
I started to -- and I also questioned: "Well, how capable is this man?" I said, "His son is not talking to him, which is L. Ron Hubbard, Jr." I never met him, but I heard -- I knew -- I said, "How could he not be talking to his own father?" We had technology to handle anyone supposedly. His other son committed suicide; His wife is in jail. He's hiding. What kind of man am I following? What am I dedicating my life to?
I couldn't find the answers. And then, little by little things fell into place. And I did see documents of Ron Hubbard's past, and I had tremendous anger. My mind was boggled. I couldn't adjust my thinking of what had happened for the past seventeen years, that while I was at Clearwater Ron was -- he didn't care at all..
And that hatred has left, the anger has left. I have no -- I'm not on a crusade against Scientology; I have no vengeance whatsoever. I have -- I just -- I feel a responsibility to the people that I've talked to. I trained hundreds, maybe thousands, of students. They've trusted me. And they told me - even after I told them what I felt about Scientology - they said, "How? But I
always felt that I wanted to be like you." And they felt that I was the OT level. And I said, "No, that was me." And'I want any Scientologist listening to know that, that I feel a responsibility to help any Scientologist that I could. I don't plan to attack Scientology at all. I just want to finish it right here and now and say that I'm not a . Scientologist and maybe help someone to at least leave room to have some free thought to consider what I'm saying, and just look and say, "Am I happy? Do I see any of Scientology being applied in life?" And then, I want to go on with my own life.
And, also, I want to say that I consider almost most Scientologists that I know are some of the best people in the world. They're dedicated. They truly believe, as I did, that they're helping mankind. And I have they're my best friends, many of them. And they probably won't talk to me now but they're still my best friends.
So, that's why I'm here. I'm here to rid Scientology of all the lies and end it right here.
MR. LeCHER: Thank you.
Do you have any questions, Mrs. Garvey?
MRS. GARVEY: Back in 1955, what was it that turned-you on to this organization? Was it the background
of Hubbard, was it the grandiose things they promised? What was it about --
MS. TAVERNA: The thing -- it was 1965, and the thing that got me was I was very, very impressed with Ron Hubbard. I thought that it was miraculous that one man developed something that could free mankind of all these ridiculous, irrational things and psychosomatic illness. I loved him right away. I loved him for being so courageous and going through the war and healing himself and studying in Asia for all these years just to devote his life to mankind. And I was so impressed that I loved him from the first moment.
And it was a very traumatic thing for me when I found out.
MRS. GARVEY: What were you promised? Were they -- when-you started taking some of these courses, did they promise any results for you, do you remember?
MS. TAVERNA: I was actually never sold auditing. In the old days -- it wasn't as bad in the earlier days. I just wanted it and came in.
I think part of my purpose was more to counsel people. I didn't have that many -- I didn't have any
The thing that it promised was guess I was
more interested in the aims of Scientology. I thought it was beautiful to be part of a group that was going to handle drugs, crime, war. I mean, it was like, "Geel I found such a good purpose in life and my children now will have a saner world to grow up in."
That's why I joined. I joined just to make a better world. And I wasn't promised anything specific. You could see on the grade chart what you would attain, and I was very interested in more spiritual awareness. My main reason for coming in was that: the spiritual awareness and to understand death and what happens when you die and things like that.
MRS. GARVEY: You said you didn't take much auditing, but you did work as an auditor.
Did you ever tell anyone that your auditing was confidential_?,-
MS. TAVERNA: That their auditing was confidential?
MRS. GARVEY: Were you ever told auditing is confidential, the information that you
MS. TAVERNA: Oh, positively.
Every -- I mean, that is -- it's printed and you read it., you know. I don't even know where specifically. But that is very common knowledge. It's printed in a lot of places. Anything you say-will, you know, be kept
in confidence. It's assumed and it's also printed.
MRS. GARVEY: Would you have continued as an auditor if you, in fact, knew that this was not going to be kept confidential?
One of the things that upset me and actually brought me to tears -- that I did see some information from a preclear folder that was used by the Guardian's Office. I saw the person's name and I saw all their sexual withholds, and I just -- I cried because that was something sacred to me as an auditor, that a person could tell me anything. And to me, it was the same as a priest. And I feel that all the people that had auditing, I subjected them to harrassment. And it shocked me that -- it disturbed me very much.
MRS. GARVEY: You actually did see then an audit had been used?
MRS. GARVEY: When you were told about the official visit, what are some of the things that are needed to do? Did you
MS. TAVERNA: You have to dress a certain way. on certain days, it said, "No jeans." You were to be-polite to any WOG.