MR. LeCHER: What does that mean?

MR. DeWOLFE: That means that eight cases of leukemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics.

MR.LeCHER: Okay.

MR. DeWOLFE: And that's it's not true, but that's what -- this was written by my father, L. Ron Hubbard.

MR. LeCHER: Tell me about The Old Man's Casebook?

MR. DeWOLFE: That's just where I pulled it from.

MR. LeCHER: The Old Man's Casebook? .

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes. That's it; I just pulled it from there.

MR. LeCHER: That's where the source of the cure of leukemia

MR. DeWOLFE: The Old Man's Casebook by L. Ron Hubbard, and it's a -- this was the journal of Scientology which-we put out. And he wrote virtually every word in all of the journals. And, also, you will find in some of those journals a man by the name of Tom Esterbrook, and that is L. Ron Hubbard, too.

Mr LeCHER: Did he ever have any other nom de plume, other than Esterbrook and L. Ron Hubbard?

MR. DeWOLFE: In Scientology, that was the two


main ones. He had them previously in his science fiction and western writing. Winchester Remington Colt was one of them. I believe

MR. LeCHER: That's his gun or his name?.

MR. DeWOLFE: That was his pen name.

He had Rene Lafayette. He wrote the book, The Dr. Methuselah Stories, under that name. I believe there was something like Captain Phillips. He had half a dozen different pen names.

MR. LeCHER: Youleft Scientology in 1959, and you

began to disassociate yourself from the organization. According to this that I have, you watched the organiza tion become a criminal conspiracy. Can you tell me about that?

MR. DeWOLFE: Well, that is slightly incorrect. I was very much a part of the criminal conspiracy through the fifties, so it really wasn't me watching it become a criminal conspiracy. It would have to be I watched it continue to become a criminal conspiracy, to be more accurate. Well, you must realize that power corrupts, and. absolute power corrupts absolutely. But I wish to paraphrase on that, which is that, for instance, power is very enjoyable, and total and absolute power is ecstasy.


-- Scientology is a power and money game. The definition of life in Scientology is what it's called it's a game. Life is a game, the same as Monopoly or playing Gin Rummy. And it doesn't have all that much reality to it, which means that you can pretty well do what you please. And one of -- my father always felt that he was above the law because he had created the law. He created whatever rules, regulations, and laws to be lived by. There was only one sin in Scientology, which was repeated to me at least a few thousand times, which is, getting caught.

MR. LeCHER: Can you be more specific about

MR. DeWOLFE: Well, I'll give you a basic viewpoint.

MR. LeCHER: We'll get into that a little later.

MR. DeWOLFE: I think, yesterday I alluded to several things that we did. For instance, in the Philadelphia fiasco being served the papers by the U.S. Marshalls in December 53, 1 ran around and emptied all of the bank accounts out, which was, I guess, subverting the purposes and the desires of the federal court. And we grab bed up all of the mailing lists and ran off with them. And I remember going around all day before the 2-24 court thing and hoarding and putting away what money we could from a couple of -- I think we had two bank accounts*I didn't have, my father did -.two bank accounts. And We went out in the country and I hid for a day or so to make sure that both the mailing lists and the money were protected. This was money which, I would imagine, rightfully the federal court would have been interested in. We did such things as when we took the organization over from John Naugerbauer and Helen O'Brien, I mean, we beat the hell out of them. I mean, that --

MR. LeCHER: Physically?

MR. DeWOLFE: Huh? This would be in 1953.

MR. LeCHER: Physically, did you beat them or mentally

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes, yes. And

MR. LeCHER: Physically, you beat the hell out of them?

MR. DeWOLFE: Correct.

We -- that was Ernie Kitsch and I did that little number.

MR. LeCHER: Is that the man -- the one-armed man?



His favorite phrase was "I'm going to go have a con- with him." And it meant more than a conversa And the as an example, transportation of transportation of funds in and out of the country. And I carried a whole valise full of money into England. it wasn't breaking English law', but it was breaking American law. And -- because, after all, it was, you know, from a non-profit corporation that was going into my father's Dollar Account in England. A Dollar Account is a special bank account. It's set up with permission of the Bank of England, and that meant that you could bring money in and out of that Dollar Account without any problem. This and a couple of checks upset Immigration, and they sent me back to -- British Immigration, they sent me back to Ireland -- I mean, Holland,.and I got brought before a member of Parliament. And that was a very interesting thing, but not really appropriate here. I'm trying to remember specific things. Now, you're talking about

MR. LeCHER: Well, we could

MR. DeWOLFE: -- criminal activity?

MR. LeCHER: Yes.


If you could -- I'd like to just go through the outline, and my colleagues can get more specific things. And we could maybe take a break and you could refresh your memory. But I also see that your sister, Kay, was apparentl blackmailed by -- she thought she was by the Scientology movement. Is that true? Do you have a sister, Kay?

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes, I do. That's her name.

MR. LeCHER: Apparently, she was given auditing and she was blackmailed by that auditing.

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes. I think she still is being

MR. LeCHER: Do you want to talk about that?

MR. DeWOLFE: Certainly. The do you mean, what the blackmail was or

MR. LeCHER: Well, if it's too personal in nature, I don't really have to hear that.

MR. DeWOLFE: I don't mind telling you what I know.

MR. LeCHER: But, apparently, your sister, Kay, was blackmailed by her father's own organization?

MA. DeWOLFE: Yes. To -- as one matter, to want to keep in touch with me would -- she's my full sister and I loved her


very much and still do. And we're a very tight, small family. But still they wanted her to keep -- to keep tabs on me. And there are two pieces of information which would really, as far as she is concerned - as far as I am concerned, there isn't - but as far as she is concerned would upset her a great deal and upset her husband's family and all of that.

MR. LeCHER: Okay.

Can you tell us about the Sea Org.? Did your grandfather die and,. then, they sent the Sea Org. to oick up your grandfather's remains at the funeral and -

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes, that's correct.

MR. LeCHER: I'd like to hear about that. And what about the trust fund for Leif DeWolfe?

MR. DeWOLFE: That's my son.

MR. LeCHER: All right.

Can you tell us something about that?

MR.. DeWOLFE: Well, my grandfather died in 1975; my grandfather was eighty-eight years old. Up to about thirty days before he became ill, he had a very solid good memory, and we were extremely close. My grandfather was almost the total opposite of my father. My grandfather had spent thirty-six years in 2-28 the Navy as an officer and a gentleman. And he had gotten very ill, and I didn't know that he was ill because nobody -- as soon as he got ill, my father had given instructions to my grandfather's wife, Marjorie - it was his second marriage - that I was not to be told. And so, the very second that he got ill, she was to info= my father. And they sent in a full Sea Org. crew to supervise things. Because I remember, when I did find out about it, I was terribly upset, because they hung around town and the very second he died, they took off everything that he owned. This was, possibly, an attempt to cover his past and, also to -- cover the past of my father. But, also, remember that he has a basic thing that he owns everything, and that was all of his things, he thought._-..So, he took them all. And, also, later on, Marjorie had said he had told-her and a couple of other relatives that I was somehow directly responsible for my grandfather's death, which is totally untrue.

MR. LeCHER: He then purchased a ship, a three hundred-foot transport with -- what was that ship used primarily for?

MR. DeWOLFE: Well, he was rather -- from what I was reading and what I also knew of him in personal experience, being moved around. If you had a total litany of all the moves that we made organizationally -- I'm talking about geographically. It was back and forth around the United States a great deal, because he kept creating heat in wherever he was at, as I said, going back to the Elizabeth, New Jersey foundation. He was very -- the British government were looking into the affairs of Scientology to a great extent. He has an org. in Rhodesia; Rhodesia kicked him out. In South Africa, they didn't like him. MR. LeCHER: Would you say he was like a ship without a country?


So, what was -- that's why he got into the Apollo. That's why he got that so he could have some freedom of action of having a complete headquarters that could leave at a moment's notice. Because, ever since Eliza- New Jersey, he has always been totally and fully prepared to leave at a moment"s notice anywhere, any time. He's always kept great chunks of cash literally within arm's length so that if there was any problem he could just take off right out the window. Starting off,when I first saw it in 1952, as an example, the shoeboxes 2-30 full of money in his closet. All he had to do was throw it in a suitcase and go. Nobody could trap him that way. And at one time I helped him transport - later on, in Washington, D.C. in the mid-fifties - two suitcases full of money that I, at two hundred forty pounds, could barely pick up.

MR. LeCHER: What kind of activities took place on that ship? MR. DeWOLFE: I don't really know, sir. I was neve on the ship. I wasn't there when he purchased it. I was just trying to explain his motivations for being on the ship. So, I'm sorry, I can't answer that.

MR. LeCHER: If you can't answer that question, then, I'll go to something else.

MR. DeWOLFE: No, I wasn't on the ship

MR. LeCHER: Well, what kind of activities went on on the ship? Was it for study or for

MR. DeWOLFE: Well, it was a complete floating headquarters. He had everything there.

MR. LeCHER: Like a-training ship or

MR. DeWOLFE: Training ship, processing, auditing, including communication. This was all -- this was the private world headquarters of L. Ron Hubbard.

MR. LeCHER: Did they eventually did this ship eventually land or dock and are those people,those kinds of organizations being now performed by the Church at the. Fort Harrison Hotel?


MR. LeCHER: So, that's a land-based operation that used to be on the ship?

MR. DeWOLFE: Right.

MR. LeCHER: All right. Let's get to the 1960's and, apparently, the Scientology organization is being sued by the United States government and Hubbard claims there's a criminal conspiracy and operations against the U.S. and private citizens, et cetera, et cetera. Then, we get down to Fair Game Policies, disconnecting. How do these -- all these fit in from the 1960's until the present, or at least as far as you know?

MR. DeWOLFE: Well, as far as, like, the R 245, we'll cover that and the Fair Game Policy. The R 245 occurred, I believe, in December '54 or 153. He was at a congress - a congress would be like a convention - in Phoenix, Arizona, and all of the delegates were there and all of the attendees and members. And I was standing in the wings and he pulls out a Colt .45 2-32 semi-automatic pistol

MR. LeCHER: Is that your father?

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes. My father pulled out this 1911 Army model. I remember he had it for years; he stole it from the Navy. Anyway -- he also stole a machine gun from the Australian government which he kept for years, until the Australian government tracked it down and told him to give it back. Anyway, he -- all of sudden, it was a total surprise, with his right hand he just pointed the gun at the floor and fired it. And he has said here and later wroten -- wow, written up by Al D. Hart, the editor of the Journal Magazine in the fifties, that it was a blank, but it wasn't, because, later on, I happened to see the hole in the floor. But R 2-45 is a one-shot -- as he said on the stage then, a one-shot clearing process, particularly useful on psychiatrists. And everybody is laughing. of course, when the gun went off, everybody jumped about a foot in the air and there was a lot of confusion because it was a pretty good sized hall, and a lot of people in the back ,really couldn't see the gun because it came out so quickly. And everybody was laughing kind of nervously. And as he came off the stage towards me, I'm laughing about it. And he looks me right in the eye and he says, "I mean it." Now

MR. LeCHER: So, permanent clear is when someone

MR. DeWOLFE: Permanent clear, yeah, you know that's -the whole thing is quick exteriorization, that is, leaving - - an instant out of the body, a permanent experience, an instant clearing. And through the fifties, it was -- at least, I considered it to be a joke. And then later, see, he got very serious about things that I had thought in the. beginning were jokes, and that was one of them. And the various policies of disconnect -- we had a slightly different one. You must realize one thing here that many, if not most, of the basic, very basic, policies of Scientology that are now written. weren't written then;---They were practiced first and, then, later on at sometime written. So, you will find that a lot of things that I am talking about and other people throughout the fifties talking about -- that it was the standard, routine operating procedure, but it just wasn't a written down thing. And later; it was written down and what he would term codified. . And the Fair Game Policy, he's had that as long as I've known him.

MR. LeCHER: That's the attack the attacker. Fair Game is to

MR. DeWOLFE: That's correct.

MR. LeCHER: -- pursue in an effort to destroy -

MR. DeWOLFE: Destroy the attacker.

And there's only one good defense, and that's to attack, quote, unquote.

MR. LeCHER: Okay. And -- I'm trying to get through this so that we can all get a chance to question you further. The Blown Student is the policy that is to kidnap a student that tries to leave.

MR. DeWOLFE: Oh, yeah, I invented that.

MR. LeCHER: You invented that?

MR. DeWOLFE: Sure.

MR. LeCHER: Tell me about that.

MR. DeWOLFE: Oh. Let me back up slightly by saying this -

MR. LeCHER: Okay.

MR. DeWOLFE: -- I ran, as chief instructor, oh, about two dozen advanced clinic courses; those were six-week courses. I ran the very first one and, starting about 1953, 1 set up all of the training routines and all 2-35 the training programs. I invented and put them together. I started doing the training at the age of eighteen in 1952. My father gave me a set of tapes that I hadn't heard, and I'm eighteen years old. And he says, "Here, teach these. I'm going to London." And I said, "Well, I don't know what they say." He said, "Well, just listen to them yourself and, then, talk about them to the students." Now, here's an eighteen year-old guy who went to three high schools, never graduated from any one of them, who had never studied the subject, and now I am the chief instructor and the chief training officer in Phoenix, Arizona in 1952. There was only one other man in the office, Al D. Hart. So, here I am at what my father called later college. And that's the way I learned it. In fact, most of the tapes and lectures that you see clear through the fifties in the United States and quite a number of them in England was when I was there when those lectures were made live. What the procedure was: He would give the lecture, giving a slight outline, and then I would stand up and teach what I just heard. So, I got very good at double talk and being pretty good at it. Also, it was up to me to formulate and set up all of the training programs, all of the training courses. I originated the grind, which -- I don't know if you hear that word today or not. But that was like eight O'clock in the morning for students to ten o'clock at night, seven days a week. You got grounded into the ground. okay. You also must realize that at that time I was pretty fat, sassy, and brassy - and as I was referring to earlier about the exercise of power - here's a kid eighteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two who was teaching people that were doctors, lawyers, rich people, people like that, and so I really exercised power. They did what I told them to do or else. And I ran them ragged. I was probably equal or even rougher and tougher than a Marine GI, and that's no exaggeration. Okay. --As far as Blown Student goes, that was a big ego trip. Nobody blew my courses. In fact, even a few-times, I'd handcuff them to their chairs. And I originated that that there's a basic thing with the road out is the road to -- that was a very early pre religious thing statement of Dad's So, the thing to do was to continue with -- continue with the course, continue with the training. So, they had to finish it. And I was pretty big physically, and if somebody ran out on me, I went and got him. And it might take me a half a dozen other guys to go get him, but I got him. And they came back. Several times, they dragged them back by their teeth, you know, "Just sit down." A good friend of mine - I still know him - I chased him down the street. He locked himself in his apartment. ,I just knocked the door down, smashing and punching, and grabbed him by the collar and drug him screaming all the way back and threw him in the auditing chair -- in the training chair. So, Blown Student, that's where that comes from. That originated the eighteen- to twenty-hour training schedules, the heavy SS style training methods.

MR. LeCHER: Okay.

We've gotten -- I'd like to ask you about Hubbard's fees

MR. DeWOLFE: I'm sorry, sir?

MR. LeCHER: How much does your father charge or his organization -- does he charge -- well, I see Hubbard charges heavily for books and courses and, if he sets up organizations, he demands members pay him ten percent of their gross.

MR. DeWOLFE: That's right.

MR. LeCHER: So, if a man or woman makes $10,000.00 a year, does that mean they will pay him one thousand -

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes, if they

MR. LeCHER: Like a tithe?

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes, ten percent. And I know his lecture fees, quote, unquote, for various conferences were a minimum of $5,000.00. You've got to realize in the early and mid-fifties, $5,000.00 was a lot more money than it is today. And the same with the advanced clinical courses; it was for $800.00. Every course was for $500.00, and auditing was $500.00 per twenty-five hours. But in 19 -- as I said, in the mid-fifties, $500.00 was a darn good average month's salary.

MR. LeCHER: Well, I see a man here charged $25,000.00 in 1955 to a person who teaches a Doctor of Scientology course. Twenty-five thousand dollars is a lot of money today

MR. DeWOLFE: Sure. Yes.

And he also guaranteed to clear a guy, Tom Maxwell of New Orleans, in '52. 1 remember that because we -- he must have had a dozen different auditors, including me, but he wouldn't get clear. And he had paid all this money to get clear, and it was one of those things that he just flat -Dad just flat guaranteed to clear him.

MR. LeCHER: Every six months, apparently, your father came out with a new discovery; is that true?

MR. DeWOLFE: Yes, because that was just about the time period it took to teach one course to -- and interes would start to lag a little bit. And so, Dad had an insatiable desire for an awful lot of money. He would come in -- and he would come up with new processes and new techniques.. So, it was set up fairly well routinely on almost a six-month basis of new courses, new things.

MR. LeCHER: Every time he got in trouble with the authorities and there was a law case, did he go out and pass the hat amongst the various missions to raise fees? I see that he raised $100,000.00 for fees. Was that for legal fees or was that just for fees for his -

MR. DeWOLFE: I don't have any knowledge about that particular incident. But the -- during the fifties, there was not much legal trouble. He -- as I said, he would take an organization over or -- everything accrued to him. He signed on every bank account; he and Mary Sue Hubbard were the only two people that could sign on the major bank accounts. During the fifties, in a couple of organizations, there were a couple of other women or men 2-40 who would sign, which he --'in the mid-fifties, but that was mostly, I guess you would call, housekeeping accounts, just to pay the utilities, et cetera.

MR. LeCHER: Why does the organization cause people to work so hard. Like, I see that they may work fourteen hours a day at little or no pay with virtually no sleep. How can you think -- what's the answer -- how can you continue to work this way seven days a week, and why must you work so hard to be a Scientologist?

MR. DeWOLFE: Well, as I -- I want to point out tha I left in 1959, and I don't know as much about -

MR. LeCHER: You said that you had the Blown -- you devised the Blown Student

MR. DeWOLFE: The Blown Student, yes. Right.

MR. LeCHER: -- and brought them back -

MR. DeWOLFE: That set the tone and the standard for the long, drawn out, heavy amounts of times that people had to put in it.Also, the pay was incredibly low I can remember, even in the fifties. Sometimes, even then, people in the organization were only getting five or seven or ten dollars a week, and they were living sometimes a dozen to a room.

All the money went to Dad.